Interview with Oky Arguello, Ph.D., November 28, 2017

Oky Arguello, Ph.D., transcript, November 28, 2017

Berry: My name is Victoria Berry, and today we're here with Oky Arguello at Volunteer State Community College here in Tennessee. Oky is a Hispanic Outreach Specialist here and she's also a member of the Nashville Area Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. First I wanted to start off, Oky can you tell us just a little bit about yourself-- where you're from, what other positions you've held in your life and just about your life in general.

Arguello: Thank you so much for having me. Originally, I was born in Costa Rica. My father was from Nicaragua, and my father was a medical doctor who worked in research, and my mother was a diplomat. So that gave me the opportunity because of him and because of her to live practically in the entire world. So I feel, as myself, that I am a citizen of the world. And what is important, the teachings that that vision gives you, is that we are all very, very similar, the humans. We are driven by the same dreams, and the same fears. Prior to living in the United States, where I've been living for the past 22 years, I spent a lot of time in Guatemala. I lived there for 17 years. So most of my career and work experience was there in my younger years. I have some important achievements, like for example: I was the first woman that was marketing director for an area, for Pepsi-Cola, in Central America and the Caribbean in times that that was very unusual to have a woman in that type of position. I've been a teacher, a university teacher, also in Guatemala. I have a Ph.D. in psychology with two majors. One major is in alcohol and drugs, and the other one is a weird one, it's conscienciology. We won't go there. But here in Tennessee, I work with Vol[unteer] State, but I also work for the Sheriff of Nashville, and also for a psychology clinic basically in things around drugs and alcohol.

Berry: That's awesome. So you've had some pretty diverse experiences.

Arguello: That's correct.

Berry: What part of your personal biography or background do you think has impacted you the most in learning about leadership?

Arguello: I would say two of them. I have a Bachelor's degree in performing arts, and I did theater for 15 years which helps me a lot to move among people and perform -- when you are scared, the actress part helps me to move a lot. And also the psychology, because I am always aware that I am in front of a human being. That helps me a lot in any scenario, professional or personal scenario.

Berry: So what cultural experiences have really impacted you as well?

Arguello: As I said, I lived in many, many countries. But most of the countries that I lived in before the United States were Latin countries. I lived in France, which is, in a way, part of the Romance area. So they are very affectionate, they are very romantic; as well as Spain and all of Latin America. So I would say that I am like that, but living in the United States over the past 22 years helped me also to have the discipline and the balance to see things in a different outlook when you live among Americans.

Berry: Do you feel that you were called into leadership? Or did you seek it because of held convictions? Do you feel like you were called into these positions? Or did you seek them out because you felt like you should?

Arguello: I would say both. I would say that probably because of my personality, it was easier for me to get those jobs, and I am a people-person. So I like human beings. I like people. And I think my employers saw that, too.

Berry: What experiences specifically can you think of that have most shaped you as a leader?

Arguello: Education. Education because education, it is my belief that it is the most efficient and long-term tool for evolution. When you provide people with information, and quality information that gives you reasons why to live and to achieve, that shapes humans. And that has been my passion. Even when I was not in education, I was always talking like I was an educator in different positions.

Berry: I definitely agree. I think that even just in my first semester as college, I've learned so many things that I didn't learn in high school, and it's opened my eyes to so many things. I certainly think if the world had more access to education, things would change. But speaking specifically about education, are there certain areas that you wish people were more educated in?

Arguello: I wish they introduced students more into ethics and solidarity. I believe that you should not only learn a career that is going to give you money to subsist or social achievement or recognition among your peers, but also a sense of solidarity and to be more in-tune about what human beings and today, what the world needs. Also, I believe in ecology and everything that has to do to keep balance and care about the place in which we live.

Berry: How many languages do you speak?

Arguello: Well, if you think that I speak English, then I speak four.

Berry: Four? What are they?

Arguello: English, French, Portuguese, and Spanish.

Berry: That's amazing. I speak English and Spanish, but I certainly wish that in America especially we started language education sooner because I think everywhere else in the world, people are learning their own language at home, and then English, but then additionally, usually another language or two. I think that that's something that puts Americans behind. Would you agree with that?

Arguello: I totally agree. There are parts of Europe where people speak five or seven languages, and without any accent-- I mean, very fluent. There are studies that demonstrate that people, when they learn additional languages, that it reshapes the brain, so you have people that are more flexible and open for new ideas.

Berry: I actually wrote a paper about that for one of my classes. That's one of the things I'm most passionate about, is language-learning, because not only are you learning another language to be able to communicate with people in other cultures, but also, parts of your brain are growing and you're benefitting in other ways as well. I think that if more people learned languages, the world would be a lot more connected and I think leadership would change a lot. I think that leaders as a whole should almost be required to have at least two languages, if not more, because I think it's important to communicate with someone in their own language because then you really get to know them and their personality. Going back to the topic of leadership as a whole, what are some of the obstacles and challenges you've faced in life, and how have you learned from them?

Arguello: We still live in a world that is basically male-dominant. And I am a female. So that has been a really tough challenge all the time because you have to prove constantly that you're worth it, that you're intelligent, that you know. So I think for females, it's more difficult. And when I came to the United States, I was surprised -- I never expected this. I came before as a tourist, but I had never lived here on a permanent basis, worked here, and competed-- racists. And I am Latin. So I have received that impact. I am still surprised. I can't believe when somebody -- as long as I don't open my mouth, because I'm blonde, I mingle as any other American. But when they hear my accent and they learn that I am from Latin America, it's like my value diminishes. That caught me by surprise because I think that is something we should have overcome years and years ago, if not centuries. So that would be my two challenges: racists and gender discrimination.

Berry: Would you say that, although those things were hard, they have made you a better leader because you're able to sympathize with people in the same positions?

Arguello: Yeah. I would say yes. I can address those topics from the human point of view, and I can talk to the people in their hearts. A good leader is the one that gets the best of the other person and puts it into service for themselves and for the community. So being able to touch their hearts and motivate, that is one of my goals when I am talking to people.

Berry: In your position here, as a Hispanic Outreach Specialist, what are some of the different things that you do?

Arguello: I always joke about it -- I always say that I am the doormat person of Vol[unteer] State because everybody enters through me. But that is not true because actually everybody that doesn't speak English enters through me. I am the person who goes and talks to the community, the Latin[o] community. The value of study is not that strong among the Latin[o] community. Latin[o]s believe a lot in working hard. So I have to explain to them and persuade them about the importance of yes, working hard, but you study first. Also, one of the things that I do is, we have a web page on Facebook, Hispanos in Vol State, and I use that as a tool to inform the Hispanic community that we have many, many people that have achieved a lot of things, that invented things, that discovered things; and they are heroes unknown. Once they know that, they're going to feel better about themselves because they feel left out. So I'm trying to motivate and get them to have that sense of importance and improve their self-esteem, and motivate them to study at the same time in different ways.

Berry: That's amazing. I know you were also involved, through the Nashville Area Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, in Hispanic Heritage Month celebrations. That's something you're obviously really passionate about, and I think that's amazing, too, because I think that all cultures need to be celebrated, but especially, Hispanic people do work really hard and need to know that they're valued and that there are so many things that Hispanic people have achieved here and also around the world. So that's an awesome thing that you do.

Arguello: Thank you.

Berry: What does leadership mean to you?

Arguello: It means the opportunity to first, to be a role model. That's something very personal because you have to put yourself to higher standards, and not just talk. You really have to show them that you are what you preach. That would be the first one. The second one is that it gives you the opportunity to talk to many, many people and as I said, touch their hearts. I truly believe that emotion is one of the best tools of education. If you are passionate about something, you learn it better. I use that to invite them to explore the ideas about education and to be better, and ethics, and reasons why, because people need to learn that, as I told you before, education is not only about learning a career to make a living. It is learning something and getting information to be more curious about the universe. It opens doors and windows that illuminate you inside so you find life worth living.

Berry: That's awesome. I completely agree. I think that, first of all, leaders have to be role models. They have to live out what they say in every part of their life, even when they're not necessarily doing things for their leadership role. In their day-to-day lives I think that they have to be different. I love what you said, also, about learning things to illuminate who you are. This semester I took a class, a philosophy class, and I loved it because it made me think a lot. But there are a lot of people who would make the argument that studying philosophy is useless because it doesn't lead directly to a trade or to a career path. But I don't think that's true, because it's made me think a lot, and also made me think personally about my leadership and how I think about the world. So I love that you included that.

Arguello: I agree with you.

Berry: How would you personally characterize your leadership style?

Arguello: I like people. I can relate very easily to people that are less fortunate from the economic point of view. That came just by chance, I think. It was put on my path. And when I was working, I always had the brands that were the cheapest one, or the one that went to the majority of the people. So I learned, even though at the beginning I was little bit scared because my background was coming from upper-middle class. But I learned so much through that experience, through working with the people, working with the less-fortunate, working with the majority. I love it. I just love it. It gives me the opportunity to give something and to make a difference and to change the world. At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself: what did I do today, and what am I doing, what am I contributing to the world to make it a better place? That better place, you have to ask yourself: what does "better" mean? And that's when philosophy comes in handy. Because "better" is not only the best car or the best watch or the best phone. It is "better" in terms of happiness; "better" in terms of quality. I truly believe that the best people of the world are the ones that have more kindness in their heart. But kindness also has to be smart. So you need to combine that with information and intelligence.

Berry: Right. I think it's awesome that you took those experiences and you consider it a blessing to be able to relate to that and work with those people. I think that if more people were able to take their experiences and look at them as a way to relate to people who are in the same position, a lot of impact could be made in the world. I think too often, people look at it and think of it as a disadvantage instead of an advantage. So, what are your professional strengths, and what are your professional weaknesses?

Arguello: I want to think that I'm a good marketing person. I have a Master's degree from Cambridge University, so I think I am a marketing person. I'm a little bit old-fashioned because I haven't done it currently, and I learned more than 20 years ago when the internet didn't exist. But still the basic concepts are there. I heard that I'm a really good psychologist. So I would say those are my major strengths. I have a bachelor's degree in performing arts, and I heard also that, I have gotten good [critical reviews] as an actress, a theater person. My weakness, professional weakness, I would say that this language, English, I still have an accent. I would say English is my weakness. I don't feel as confident yet as I feel when I speak in Spanish. Also, I expect a lot always, and it does not necessarily come that way, and I get disappointed sometimes in things. If you talk to my children, they will tell you all my weaknesses.

Berry: Of course. So you would say you're a little bit of a perfectionist?

Arguello: Yes.

Berry: I'm definitely the same way. I want things to turn out a certain way, and when they don't, sometimes it's hard to accept it. But, you learn from it. I will also say you're English is great.

Arguello: Thank you.

Berry: One time I heard a quote that a foreign accent is a sign of bravery, and I think that that is true because --

Arguello: Oh, I love it.

Berry: Yeah, because if you have a foreign accent, that means that you've gone somewhere that you're not originally from, which means taking a step out, and that can be really hard.

Arguello: It's uncomfortable. And you're scared because it's not your territory. And in my case, that I'm a talkative person, when I speak in Spanish, that's my tool. That's my weapon. I speak Spanish-- and not trying to be cocky-- beautifully, the vocabulary... I'm a writer. I have three books published and I write poetry. So my vocabulary is very extensive. When I go to English, I feel like I am a five-year-old kid without all of the security that mastering something gives you. So yes, I agree, you need to be brave to do something like that.

Berry: That kind of goes back to my point: I wish more leaders would learn other languages; not even necessarily just for the sake of learning the language, but just for understanding. I know in learning Spanish, which is not my native tongue, I've realized that it is really hard to be speaking in another language, and even when you feel like you have a basic competency, you don't have all those vocabulary words, or random words that you know when you grow up learning the language. So it can be really hard, and I wish that more leaders would learn it instead of just having translators because they would really understand where people are coming from and how they feel.

Arguello: I agree. And when you learn a language, also, not only your concept of the world changes, because the wording is different; so all the sonority and the complexity and the way that you approach whatever you're talking about, whether it's an object or an idea or a feeling, and you say it in a different way, in pronunciation and with subtle changes in the concept, it's going to open up your mind. But also, the way you feel things is going to change. That's why every time you learn a new language, you're adding a new you inside of you. So you're not only one person. You are as many people as languages you speak.

Berry: I love that. I've heard people who've said similar things too, and I completely agree. I feel like a different person in Spanish than I do in English. I think it's just, when you learn different words and different phrases, it unlocks something in your mind and it's a different way of thinking about something that you've always known or you've always felt. So, that's really cool.

Arguello: Yeah.

Berry: What or who has been your greatest influence?

Arguello: In which field? At what level?

Berry: Just as a whole, as a leader as a whole.

Arguello: I would say that on a personal level, probably my parents. They were very brilliant. My father was a genius, he was a medical doctor. He had this intellectual approach to things; like always big ideas. My mother was very intelligent, but different. She was such a humble person and positive person, and she was into the little things. He was into the big things; and she was into the little things, and how little things make a difference in the world, and more into the beauty and the kindness. So I would say that was on my personal level. Now, on a worldwide level, I like the way that Mother Teresa of Calcutta used to think; and Malcolm X. I would say Barack Obama -- I don't want to sound political, but I like the way that he explained things and the way that he approached things. Leonardo da Vinci -- I studied the guy, because I thought he was a genius on so many levels that I was enchanted by him. So I would say that probably those, thinking very fast, would be my role models. They give something to the way that I approach the universe and life.

Berry: I love that. My parents are very similar. My mom is more into the details and small things and kindness; and my stepdad is a software engineer, so he's into big ideas and he's so smart. I've tried to understand what he does, but it's so confusing. He's good at helping me with my math homework. *Laughter* I also love Mother Teresa. I think the things she said are amazing. Every time I read quotes by her, I'm just like, wow. That's awesome.

Arguello: And she was one of the people that, she really meant what she spoke. You can compare her life with her words, and they match. That's very, very important.

Berry: That's kind of what you were saying earlier, that leaders really need to live out what they say.

Arguello: Yes.

Berry: Yeah. So, leaders help to turn ideas into action and they empower others. How do you accomplish this? What are some of the ways that you make this happen?

Arguello: Well, because of my role here in Vol[unteer] State and also with the other institutions where I work, basically teaching and enlightening people in a way; removing the darkness from inside, whether it is the mind or the heart. I can see them studying and changing their life. I can see that they take the ideas, that they incorporate them into their life. They put it into work; whether that is starting a career, stopping use of drugs and alcohol, or just beginning to be in love with life. Life is an amazing opportunity. Sometimes all you need is a little candle. That candle can be information, can be a kind word, can be a hug to start a flame that illuminates your entire life and changes it.

Berry: That's awesome. I think that a lot of times leadership is looked at as this big thing, and that they are these strong people who make some speeches and say some nice things, but don't necessarily always interact with people. But I think what you're saying about kindness, even if it's a small word that's spoken to you; it can change your life. So I think that leadership starts from the ground-up and is something that is person-to-person, not necessarily just this huge leader that's up on-stage in front of crowds.

Arguello: Yeah. If you lose contact with the human that is on the ground, you may expose amazing ideas, but eventually, you won't know the needs. You need to be in contact with the needs and the emotions and the pain so you don't lose sight of what is important and what you are trying to achieve.

Berry: That's really valuable when thinking about leadership. How do you measure success, and how do you learn from failure?

Arguello: Because I work for institutions, I have to be efficient. Right? So In terms of Vol[unteer] State, I do have records of how many people I see and how that converts into people starting or finishing a career in a successful way. In the other institutions, it's the same thing: how many people have relapsed? That is kind of easy because it's part of the job. In terms of the rest, sometimes it's just a personal thing. You can see the light in the eyes of the people that are listening to you. You can see that they really want to learn something from you or you lit that candle. You can see it. And it's beautiful.

Berry: That is beautiful. How then do you learn from failure?

Arguello: You have to modify some preconceptions that you have. That doesn't happen if something slaps you in the face because it's not what you thought it is. So I would say to review your information and change your point of view, even though sometimes it goes against your personal point of view. But in order not to be fake, and not to be forced, all you need is to have new information, and again, keep in-contact with the people, and then you have to adapt. In this leadership thing, you really have to be flexible, and understand that the only constant is the change.

Berry: Yeah. The only constant is the change. That's a really key thing. The idea of changing your perceptions and just going with the flow, that's so important, because anyone who wants to be a leader has to realize that the goal they have in mind-- the plan they have to get to that goal is never going to go how they think it will.

Arguello: Yeah.

Berry: And so, if they ever want to get to the goal, they're going to have to go with the changes and just make do with what happens. So what are two or three actions steps that you believe are essential to enable others to be successful?

Arguello: I would say to relate to the people that you are talking to, to your audience, whether it is one person or three-thousand. Relate to them. Find what you have in common. Establish a common goal, but something that really is going to be better for them, and they can understand. But never lose sight of the major things in life. Everybody wants to be loved. Everybody wants to be important and respected. Everybody wants to feel that they are doing something in life. Whether it is the carpenter, or the person that is putting the carpet in your house, or whether it is a dean of a university-- we all have, basically, the same needs and dreams. It's just on different levels. So once you have that inside, find the motivation, because remember, a leader has to motivate; has to ignite the best in you to achieve the best you can achieve. And the steps will follow. It goes back to what we said: don't lose sight of the people, but don't lose sight of your goal. Your goal has to be greater and better.

Berry: Yeah. I love the idea of motivating people to do the best that they can because if that person doesn't have the drive to do something themselves, then nothing will change. So the role of a leader is to be a motivator.

Arguello: It is. And there is nobody that is more important than anybody. You can create the best strategy, the best plan, the most important idea ever; but if the mailman, or the person that is carrying their sack to deliver from point A to point B, doesn't do it in a timely manner, everything goes down the pipe. So everybody is important -- everybody.

Berry: Yeah, everyone's important. No matter what they're doing, where they're from, the languages they speak-- everything is important. What advice do you have for building relationships and trust in an organization? You've had experience in multiple organizations, multiple types of organizations, and multiple countries.

Arguello: Just to rephrase-- are you asking me about building trust in the company or from the company to the people?

Berry: In the company.

Arguello: Inside the company? Well, consistency and work ethics and quality in a consistent way. If they see that it's consistent quality, and the ethics, when you're doing whatever you're doing, they are going to start trusting you.

Berry: So again, the idea that no matter what you're doing, to live out what you say a leader should be, and to walk the walk.

Arguello: Yeah.

Berry: No matter what you're doing. So, what do you want your legacy to be?

Arguello: Well I have different levels. On a personal level, I wish that my children understand that happiness is not something that happens; it's something that you do. It's how you approach life. It's a decision. In my students, that they understand that learning is a process that never ends. In my patients, that attitude makes the difference to see the glass half-full or half-empty, and it's a decision to; that the universe is a beautiful place, and it's up to you to discover that beauty. If they can remember me when they're doing that, I will be happy. But if they don't, it doesn't matter, because I know that I put that seed in there.

Berry: That's beautiful. I think leadership is all about that: just doing it for someone else, being selfless, and not caring if they'll remember your name; just caring that what you said sticks with them. I think that that's what the true definition of leadership is, and if more people who were seeking to be leaders kept that in mind, I think more change would actually happen in the world because the change has to start from wanting the best for someone else without caring what happens to you or if your name goes up in lights or anything.

Arguello: That's correct. The change is what is important-- not your name. Absolutely.

Berry: So just as a whole, you want your legacy to be that you've helped others and that even if they don't remember your name, that's okay, because your goal is to help others and spread the light that you have inside yourself.

Arguello: That's correct. Yeah. That candle -- I pass my candle, or the light of my candle to your candle, and you pass it to others. Let's start passing light from one to another, one to another, one to another. Let's multiply the good.

Berry: This semester in our Intro[duction] to Global Leadership Studies Class, we read a book that talked about leadership across levels. Specifically, it was talking about leadership within an organization, but it was just saying that at each level of an organization, there are leaders. Some of those leaders are going to be kind of at the bottom -- I put that in quotes because no one is really at the bottom. But those people who are just your average, everyday people, that maybe don't think of themselves as leaders, but that are, what are some practical tips you could give to those people to be leaders in their everyday lives?

Arguello: We have to change the perception that a leader is someone that is in the top. That is a wrong perception. A leader is a person that motivates another to do better. So again, it can be the person that serves the coffee or cleans the floors. That person can motivate other people to be as clean as they are and to be smiling and have a happy day. That's starting in the morning. I mean, everybody has that potential and that possibility, and that responsibility. That's the other thing: if you put yourself in a comfortable and infant way that the ones in charge have to motivate me and they have the responsibility of things moving on, that is very comfortable, right? But if we are a team, and we understand that we are all important and there are no small roles, that will be the change.

Berry: To wrap up and summarize everything we've talked about, as a whole, I think that you've said some great things about leadership: that is starts from just how you live your life every day, even if you're not technically considered a leader, you still are one because you influence everyone around you. Just that the power of a kind word or new knowledge can change a person and can create change in the world as a whole is really powerful. Education is a really important key to that. Also, I think with your background and what we've talked about, that leaders should have knowledge of the whole entire world, even if they're only serving in a certain country and speaking a certain language, it's important that they learn other languages as well and learn about other people because ultimately, what they do, is going to impact people around the world. What they say to one person, that person says to someone, and that person says to someone, and soon enough the whole world is impacted by each person on the earth. I think that as a whole, your message is to live your life as you want to see other people live their lives, and how you would want the world to be.

Arguello: Yeah, I would say that even though we have cultural differences, philosophical point of view may be different; there are certain things that we have in common. So find those things that we have in commons and appeal to those ones and use those ones as the trigger to motivate yourself to be the best you can be. For the rest, I truly believe in solidarity. That will be the word that I embrace the most. We are not only one nation under God, indivisible, you know? We are one world under God, indivisible.

Berry: Right. It's also very cool that you've been involved in so many different types of things, and things that sometimes are looked at as unrelated, but that when put together, make a very unique person who has a lot of different experience and can relate to a lot of different people. People who are seeking leadership positions, or are seeking to be leaders, should pursue any interest they have, even if it seems like they're not related, because at the end of the day ,somehow, that knowledge that they have is going to help them relate to someone else. It's never wasted. Knowledge is never wasted. Everything you learn is important. So I think it's really cool that you're a living testament to that and thank you so much for allowing me to interview you. You've really provided a message of hope and light for the world and for leaders, and that's really amazing.

Arguello: Thank you for this beautiful opportunity. It's really, really a pleasure to talk to you.

Berry: Thank you so much. And again, this is Oky Arguello from Volunteer State Community College; but also, as she said, a citizen of the world. Thank you.