Interview with Dan Mackett, November 29, 2018

ï"¿ Free: Alright so if you could start by stating your name, job title, and the organization that you work for.

Mackett: My name is Dan Mackett and I work for International Justice Mission and I currently serve as the College Mobilization Manager.

Free: Awesome. And how did you first hear about IJM and what caused you to want to work for them?

Mackett: My freshman year of college I attended a large Christian conference called Passion, and that year there were 40,000 college students in Atlanta. One of the topics that we discussed while at the conference was the issue of modern day slavery and trafficking. And during the course of those four days we heard story after story of people, women trapped in trafficking and slavery and what that had looked like and, in addition, just understanding what the Christian faith says about seeking justice and loving the oppressed in our world. And so that was the first time I had heard of IJM and just was really motivated to get involved right after. That second semester of my freshman year when I got back to campus, three friends and I started our IJM campus chapter because we knew we wanted to take a step of faith and get involved.

Free: Awesome. What part of your personal biography or background led you to your position as College Mobilization Manager?

Mackett: A couple things. I would say, first, my involvement with IJM throughout college. I helped start the campus chapter and led that for three and a half years. I also got to serve on the first national student leadership teams. There were nine of us who are selected to help coach other campus chapter leaders across the country, and so I had experience in coaching and leading other teams that were not at my campus. Two more things. One, I ended up starting a coffee shop my senior year to raise money for IJM. So I had some kind of significant experience running a program or a business and for that matter coupled with fundraising efforts because that's such a big part of my job. And then lastly I did two years of management consulting right after college, before coming to IJM full-time. During that time, I learned a lot about project management and how to think about strategy, how to communicate strategy. And so that really equipped me for this rule.

Free: Awesome. What cultural identities or experiences are most important to you?

Mackett: I'll first start with experiences. I would say, for me, one of the things that was kind of deeply transformational was getting to work with a very committed group of people from the same faith background. Even though we, as campus chapter leaders, felt at times slightly disconnected from the larger movement that IJM was building, being able to gather together weekly and encourage one another in the fight. Even when it did feel like we were not doing much or didn't feel like we were really contributing to it, having that group of like five to ten people that we knew at least we were going to show up every week and we were going to fight for these people. Their faith in their commitment really spurred me on towards wanting to be more faithful in the long-term. So I would say just the experience of working with a very committed small group of people that shared the same faith in Christ. On that team, what was great from just like a cultural and even just differential experiential background was we were coming from all different backgrounds, and Campus Ministries for that matter, so we were all in different Campus Ministries, we all came from different parts of the country, we all had much different experiences from even just like a wealth perspective of how we grew up and what kind of neighborhood you grew up in. We were all able to bring different diverse opinions to the events and campaigns that we were planning which really helped us. And execute better events that could reach a wider audience. I would also say, specifically relating to just my time here, I got to travel to the Philippines during my junior year of college and getting to see the Philippine IJM teams, to see how they did things, how they ran things within a country was just incredibly encouraging and to see them leading the movement was widely encouraging for me.

Free: Awesome. You touched on this a little bit, but what experiences have most shaped you as a leader?

Mackett: This one is not IJM, but it has shaped my leadership completely. So my second year of doing management consulting, long story short, I was placed to run a five-million-dollar software implementation project for a client of our company. That really never happens, like no 23-year-old gets the opportunity to lead a 20-person team in a five-million-dollar project within an industry that I am not super experienced. So the way consulting works is we bring general best practices to a specific firm. In this case, it was a natural gas and energy utility for a city. And so here I was inexperienced, one year out of college. Yes, I was a business major, but then I was placed to lead this team of like people that were 20 to 40 years older than me within a 40 years more experience and I was expected to kind of be the expert and to shepherd this team. So that experience over the next year of leading that team and hopefully helping transform it over that year was deeply transformational. One, I learned it is the humility of when like that it is okay to ask questions as a leader. It is okay to not have all the right answers but to actually bring your team into the decision-making process, not all the time, but oftentimes gathering their input, gathering their wisdom into key decisions that the team needed to make, especially as a young leader was deeply beneficial. Secondly, just knowing when to own up for mistakes. I have made plenty of mistakes while leading that team. So I think one of the elements of a key leader is not blaming somebody else or making up external factors of why something didn't work. If you screwed up, take the ownership for that. I think humble leaders who are honest and who have high integrity are the leaders that I want to follow. So I learned how to navigate that but there is also a way to phrase owning your mistakes which I also learned. And then lastly, just because you're young do not discount your ability to lead. Though I was inexperienced and I was fresh out of school and I didn't understand the tech and aspects of the project that I was leading, people kept speaking to me like hey, you have characteristics of a good leader, you can communicate well, you are able to synthesize information and lead meetings, hone in on your strengths and then leverage that, even if you are not an expert across any level. So that year was deeply challenging. And I hope I left the team in a better place when I left to come to IJM.

Free: Wonderful. Do you feel like you were called into leadership or did you seek it out because of held convictions?

Mackett: It is a good question. I would say a little bit of both. I would say I am very entrepreneurial and so I am always someone to just seek out opportunities, especially when it is an idea that I have. I do not see the barriers to actually implementing an idea. I just see the end state and I am able to run towards it. So I would say, given the coffee shop, when I had the idea to start a non-profit coffee shop at University of Wisconsin my senior year when I didn't have much time, I saw what it could do and I saw the end state and I was working to make it happen. So at six months we launched this coffee shop that is still running today. So on one level my initiative and entrepreneurial spirit forces me to be in leadership positions because I see a problem and I see a need and I want to address that, but I would also say that I feel like God has just given me specific opportunities and had specific leaders come around me and kind of identify areas that they value and that they think you make a good leader and so they kind of spoken that into me. So having that kind of confidence and encouragement single forward has also been very helpful, but I would not necessarily say I am seeking out leadership opportunities. More so they kind of fell into my lap either through my kind of innovative spirit or just being faithful in the small things will catch other leaders’ intentions to make you want to actually for them to put you in leadership.

Free: Yes, how have you learned from obstacles and challenges you faced?

Mackett: I would say, first thing, you just need to have, and I am not saying I do this perfectly, I am far from it, but you need to have the humility to actually want to learn from your mistakes. There are leaders who sometimes are in denial of their mistakes and there could be a really good lesson for them to learn, but because of pride and insecurity, they won't want to move forward and that has definitely been points in my career, but I would say just from a starting point you have to have the kind of humility to learn from your mistakes. I also say just the beauty of living in the world that we are at, just kind of recognizing that everybody is going to make mistakes and there is grace for that and you are only going to get better as a leader and as a person of faith if you ask for regular feedback and have the humility to actually receive that feedback. I could ask all of our campus chapter leaders right now and say, (Hey, what are some ways in which we could we improve the program?) and I could listen, technically, but then I could not actually have the humility to say, (Hey, they actually know what to do better than I do and so I am going to take what they say and actually put it into practice). First step is actually being willing to listen and then, even though you have the information, just acknowledging that they may have better information and better ideas and it is your job as a leader to recognize when those ideas in the strategies are better and for you to implement it even if it is not your traditional thought.

Free: What does leadership mean to you?

Mackett: I would say two things. One, it is learning how to shepherd. Any time you're in a leadership position you are going to have a team or you are going to have a following of people who are looking to you and your first role as a shepherd, especially in the Christian perspective, is how do you showcase Jesus to everybody that you interact with? That has to be your first priority of how are you going to love people and serve them well, how you can exhibit the kind of characteristics that Jesus has to your teammates. Even just before a performance perspective or goals that you are going to achieve, do you have character that other people want to follow? So it is shepherding and character that other people want to follow on that emulates Jesus. I would also say, second thing, leadership is about serving and so it is you serving your team so that they can thrive. It is not your team serving you so you can thrive. It is identifying ways that you can serve your team, you can support them, encourage them, speak life into them so that the god-given talents that they have, you are helping unleash that so that, actually, they get more of the credit than you do. That's the definition of a good leader, when your team is getting or your individuals on your team are getting more credit than you are. Lastly, I would say it is helping make hard decisions. Any team that we lead an organization there are many things that are broken, so there are tough decisions that come with it, and so you have to you have to have the willingness to make those tough decisions, but then to own them and then to handle that with grace. It is not somebody on your team screws up and is not performing well. Yes, that actually needs to be corrected, but you can also do that with the grace. There is a way to do it with grace and there is a way to do it that actually helps them towards progressive.

Free: Definitely. How would you characterize your leadership style?

Mackett: That is a good question. I think part of it is innovative / kind of entrepreneurial. I am one that wants to push the boundaries and try new things and I want the people that follow me to try new things. I hope I am a leader that is encouraging and fostering creativity and innovations for them to realize their gifts. Secondly, hopefully it is Christ-centered so that the campus chapter leaders that I have see my deeper desire more than us helping fuel the mission to end slavery through very specific ways. My first priority is that all of our campus chapter leaders are seeing and experiencing Jesus more clearly. So it is the leadership of prioritizing those ways in which that kind of environment can be created that people can see it is Savior Jesus. Lastly, I would say I am going to get down into the nitty-gritty. So yes, I am a vision person, I am a strategy person, but I am willing to do the data entry and do the nitty-gritty details of things that need to get done. When I ran the coffee shop, yes, I loved starting it, having a vision, but I also just loved making coffee. I could make coffee all day for people. So that is the simplest part in the actual process of running a coffee shop, but I love the small things. I like the big things as well.

Free: Do you feel as though your leadership style has changed since you've been in your position with IJM?

Mackett: Yes. I have learned a lot. I learned a lot from a lot of other people within IJM. There are a lot of incredible leaders here and I have picked up on how they do things and how they lead. I would say one way which it has grown is that I think I am expecting more of our leaders, like the leaders that I am leading, I am expecting more of them. There could be movements that are kind of go with the flow and that are somewhat wishy-washy and do not have a clear mission, but I would say I have learned from other people that we have a very clear vision and we are going to stick to that and we are going to hold our people accountable to that. So within leading chapters, I think I have brought a level of expectation and responsibilities that was not there before, especially when I led campus chapter or when I led adjust crew. I think it is part just recognizing that people have amazing gifts and we want to hold them to responsible to be able to release those gifts. I would also say learning to listen and ask for feedback more. I think more than ever because our campuses are so diverse. Some are large public, secular universities, some are small private Christian, very conservative universities. I do not have the insight and information to create a campaign or to create a resource that is going to be beneficial to everybody without asking for input. And just learning how to foster that input, that wisdom from our leaders so that we are creating things that actually count.

Free: What are your professional strengths and weaknesses?

Mackett: Strengths, I would say I can see the big picture very well. I can see the endgame of where we are going and I can lay out at least an initial strategy of how to get there. I am going to want people to speak into that and there are many things that I do not have within that strategy, but I can at least see the endgame. I would also say I am a good networker. I love building relationships and seeing the win-win in partnerships. Partnerships are not partnerships unless both parties win. I have an ability to see the win-win in a potential partnership and then actually pursue that. Lastly, I would say actually communicating a vision. I can encourage and inspire people on towards that desired end state. I would say weaknesses, sometimes I want to take on too many things and I have too many ideas that I want to implement, so that can be very stressful or burdensome to the team that I am leading or the leaders that I am leading. Knowing when to say yes to really good ideas and then knowing when to put the brakes on because we already have too much on our plate. I am growing in that area. I would also say I have a weakness in sometimes I am not as detail-oriented as I need to be because my head is up in the clouds a lot of the time and I can forgo little details, and little details are what make excellent things. And so learning to know when I am more tempted to neglect the details and then work to overcome.

Free: What or who has been your greatest influence?

Mackett: Two people come to mind. One, my dad. My dad is a pastor and he's one of the humblest and meek people that I know. He is always first to listen, rather than to give advice, even though he has a PhD and he is way wiser than me. He will always listen first, which I am so thankful for. So just his humility, the way he honors people and puts them before himself is just incredible. Also just being at IJM and Gary Haugen, our founder. In a thousand-person organization and for as busy as he is, he takes the time to get to know everybody. Even when I was an intern four years ago, he got to know our entire intern class, our names, even though we were only going to be here for two months. Just the intentionality that he showcases and he genuinely cares deeply about each person's, yes, professional career, but also just who are they becoming in Christ more than what we can do for the organization. I think for a guy that is busy and people want to spend time with him, he is so present and and he is so people-focused, it is encouraging.

Free: Awesome. You have touched on this a little bit but leaders help to turn ideas into action and empower others. How do you accomplish this?

Mackett: One, it is just kind of the art of delegation. Any idea or a project that you are working on, the temptation of a leader is to want to hold too tightly on those things and not give people the freedom to create and innovate. So, one, it is delegating and it is seeing which people on your team have those gifts to complete a specific part of a project and then just saying, (Hey, you have the full authority to go and execute this). We have done that in a couple of ways. So it is seeing people's gifts and then actually delegating to them. I would say, also, it is shepherding a team that is focused on open and constant communication. Projects will never complete if people are working in silos. And so, how do you bring everybody to the table to update people on the status or ask people to speak into specific tasks within the project? Having that regular communication and ability to communicate with one another makes sure your team isn’t operating in silos and that nothing ever gets accomplished.

Free: Do you feel it is important to delegate? If so, why? And when and how do you do it?

Mackett: It is absolutely critical to delegate because no person, or even team for that matter, can accomplish anything on their own. Everybody has a part to play and everybody actually has a part that they can do better than you could do. So I am on the advocacy and mobilization team. There is 10 of us. Each one of us have gifts and strengths that if we are assigned that task, there is just a reality that one person is going to be able to do that task better than somebody else. If the leader fails to delegate the right task to that person then somebody who is not really gifted in that area is going to execute on it and you are not going to get it as good of product as you could have. Delegation is the art of seeing what people can do and then be willing to actually do that better than you could do it. And how? I would say as a leader, it is continually taking the time to reflect and think about (Okay, as I have worked with this person over the last year or two months, what has blown me away that they've just done incredibly well?), and as you identified that, take the time to think about what aspects of that person or strengths did that person exhibit that they actually executed that task really well. And then as you think about that, as you take the time to identify that, that is readily available on your mind so that when a new task or new project comes up, it is like, (Oh, yeah. I am going to tap on this leader’s shoulder from TCU or Belmont or Wake Forest to get their input and task them to help out with that because I have seen them executed on the past). I am taking the time to acknowledge that and then I can ask them to do it.

Free: Right. How do you measure success? And how do you learn from failure?

Mackett: The first one is tricky. It is tricky because, especially in my current role, there is a spiritual aspect and you can't really measure that. There is fundraising goals and advocacy petition, stuff like that that we can measure but something like with the Freedom Fast that y'all just put on, it is a fundraiser but it is also a deeply personal experience where people are fasting and praying and talking to God about it. So you can't actually measure that. Part of measuring success is measuring the things that you can measure and then just trust God that the other aspects of the event or the campaign in a program that you are running is producing the fruit that only God can produce within that. So I think there are elements that we as leaders need to recognize that we can't measure, but we just have to trust that as we fulfill the vision that we are called to, God is going to work in and through that. But also setting very real and tangible goals. So for our upcoming advocacy campaign, we want to get 5,000 students to tweet their members of Congress. We are going to measure on whether or not we actually hit that five thousand tweets. Setting real, tangible goals so you can actually measure if it was successful or not. Even if you didn't hit that goal, there are going to be successes within that, so you’ve got to take the time to pull those out and recognize them. I would say failures, being humble and real and raw with the team to identify and have real conversations about, (Okay, what didn't go well and why?) and based on that, how can we do this better next time? From Freedom Fast in 2017 to Freedom Fast in 2018, there were many things that we did not do well to equip you guys as you guys were executing those campaigns in 2017. We took that feedback, synthesized it, and then hopefully executed it at least somewhat in 2018 to better equip y’all.

Free: Right. What are two or three action steps you believe are essential to enable others to be successful.

Mackett: I would say one is understanding your bandwidth and capacity. There are great leaders within our movement right now that are way overcommitted and an overcommitted person or leader is not going to last very long. A person needs to understand what they can actually do in a healthy balance so that those things that they have committed to, they can actually do really well, instead of trying to just trying to take on a bunch of different things or initiatives and only do all of them halfheartedly. So it is one, understanding your boundaries and your limits. I would also say you have to ask for opportunities. You have to dream and think outside of the box and then you have to have the boldness to ask for opportunities. There are a ton of leaders who have dreamt outside of the box and asked me for certain things or ways in which we can support them in this idea that they've had. That excites me completely and I want to support them and I want to enable that to succeed in that. But you have to ask first because it is impossible for any leader to know exactly what their team is thinking.

Free: What advice do you have for building relationships and trust in an organization?

Mackett: A couple things come to mind. One is taking the time to care for the person and not their work product. So first and foremost, ask questions about how people are doing, how is church-going. If you know they like golf or they like football or cooking or playing board games, ask intentional questions about their life that doesn't relate to work or doesn't relate to a project that you work on. Take the time to get to know one another because people do not trust you until they know that you care for them. So care for them as a person, as a brother and sister in Christ, if it is in a Christian standpoint, before you talk about work. The second thing is following through with the things that you say. If you say, (Hey, let me get you this report) or (Hey, I am going to go above and beyond to help you out with this certain thing), they are expecting you to do that, and when you drop the ball too many times it just burns bridges and eliminates trust. We are all going to drop the ball and so it is not saying that you have to do it perfectly, but if you do not do it, don’t just dismissive it that you didn't do it. Own up to it, be like, (Hey Jack, I am super sorry. I said I would help you out with this. I dropped the ball. I am going to work on it next time). You have a grace period of next time you say you are going to do something for that person, follow through and that is going to rebuild that trust.

Free: Alright last question. What do you want your legacy to be?

Mackett: Two things. One, I want all of my leaders to experience the joy of walking with Jesus in His fight for justice. So if they think back to me to be like (Man, he wanted us and enabled us to love Jesus better). And then also like (He enabled us to really deeply participate in the work of rescuing people from violence and slavery). And part of that was actually learning to be super generous. When people think of me, I want them to first see Jesus and then secondly, to be like, (Yep, he practiced what he preached and he was a generous person with his time, with his talents, and with his treasury).

Free: Okay. Alright, well that concludes our interview. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I really appreciate it.

Mackett: Camille, thank you so much. Such a joy to talk, great questions, and if there is anything else I can do please let me know.

Free: Alright, thank you so much. Have a great day.

Mackett: You too. Bye.