Interview with Matt Lingerfelt, November 26, 2018

ï"¿Kelly Boggs: Okay. What is your name?

Matt Lingerfelt: My name is Matt linger felt.

KB: And what is your job title?

ML: Senior project coordinator Community programs and Philanthropic giving for community affairs and ChickfilA foundation.

KB: And what does that entail?

ML: I manage programming for local and national partnerships and different types of events or learning opportunities that we may have, whether it is in regard to community activation or if it is in regards to supporting our local ChickFilA operators.

KB: Okay, great. What part of your personal biography or background led you to this position?

ML: I am the youngest of four boys and all of my brothers work for ChickFilA. I never wanted to work inside of this business, never once wanted to smell like chicken, or work in a fast food restaurant. I had no desire for it. However, it ended up working out differently when I graduated high school. I started out and I went to work for one of my brothers who at that point had become a ChickFilA operator and his store was located halfway between home and where I was taking classes for college. And so, I started working for him and I was a cow mascot and I worked by dancing in a cow costume on the side of the road, bringing in guests and customers to support the restaurant. But because of that experience, I fell in love with the actual restaurant itself, with the front counter, with the drive-thru, with the kitchen, marketing, the catering, all the things that come with the ChickFilA restaurant. I started working inside of that facility for four or five years on and off because of school and where I was going to school. I was working my brothers business and started learning it from that perspective. Graduating college, I actually graduated with an education degree. And I knew I was not going to teach my senior year. I was like, "I am going to go into this. I want to try something different," and I decided to pursue the corporate office. After a short stint in the hospitality industry, the hotel industry, I came here and started giving tours to the guests who would visit the corporate office of ChickFilA. I did that for three years and at that point I wanted to try something different and talked with my leadership. I expressed my interest in trying a new roll and they responded by asking me to come on board and help one of my colleagues who was running programming at the time. And I have been doing programming ever since. I started out with camps and then it is gone through book houses, the fellows program, and ChickFilA leader academy. But my personal biography is that the business is always been a part of my life indirectly until I was 18 years old and I decided that this was a place I wanted to be.

KB: Okay, what cultural identity / experiences are most salient for you? Or, in other words, have you encountered instances in which your identity has been challenged and to what effect?

ML: Fortunately, I cannot say that my identity has been challenged in this business. I have been blessed where my beliefs, my values, and my morals, line up with the leaders of the business I am a part of. I will say, the biggest challenge I have been met with has been to think outside of ChickFilA at times, to not always be putting ChickFilA inside of a box, but rather, to think outside of that box and consider what other opportunities and possibilities can come up. If you put one experience inside of a box, you kind of limit yourself to that one experience, so it is more beneficial to think outside of the box and consider what else is available.

KB: What experiences have shaped you the most as a leader?

ML: The experiences that have shaped me as a leader have honestly been the moments where I have been, in the lack of better term, pushed to lead. I have always been able to help organize people, but it comes with being detailed. The more detailed I can, be the better I am at leading others. When I am forced and pushed out into the forefront to lead a group or to lead a project, that is the biggest challenge for me. It is not something that I innately do, but I am more encouraged and pushed to do. And being pushed to do that helps me become a little more successful.

KB: Were you called into leadership or did you seek it because of held convictions?

ML: A little bit of both, honestly. Leadership, even in the team I am on, I am pushed. It may not be by title, that you have leadership, but by the work experience that you bring to the table. I did seek it out. For example, when I was in backstage tours I realized there was nothing else for me in that role that I could really contribute to the team outside of what I was already doing, and so taking a step on faith, being able to reach out to the current leadership I had at the time and have hard conversations allowed me to better myself. It is about asking "what can I do," and reaching out for it.

KB: How have you learned from obstacles and challenges that you faced?

ML: Every obstacle you face is a learning experience. Everything, I believe, adds on to your previous experiences for something better and bigger, and so taking what you have learned in the past, whether it was a success or a failure, is some of your biggest learnings. In fact, for me, the biggest failures I have ever had have always been my biggest learnings because you can either repeat it if you want to and maybe get a different outcome or you can change it a little bit to get a better outcome.

KB: What does leadership mean to you?

ML: That is a great question. To me, leadership is not necessarily about leading per se, like a line leader would do, but having a person who has the ability to express a belief in a mission and have people follow and buy into that mission or the values that they may have. For where I am right now, one of the best examples I can give you for our business would be Truett Cathy of course. His leadership and his belief that a chicken sandwich could change the world is pretty remarkable. He stuck to his guns in regards to his values and his beliefs. He really built this business to where, this year, we are going to be breaking close to 10 billion dollars in sales. And so, it is not necessarily about a person who can lead a line per se, but it is about a person who can who can stir up emotions and beliefs in other people that want to get behind themselves. Does that make sense?

KB: Yes, that makes sense.

ML: Being able to be a leader in my mind is being able to express yourself in a clear way that allows people to get behind you and support you.

KB: Great. How would you characterize your leadership style?

ML: My leadership style comes with the form of enthusiasm and really believing in what I am doing. For example, with the ChickFilA fellows program, I really do have a calling to be involved in the lives of young people, whether it is elementary, middle, high school, college students, or if it is just people in a professional world who are starting their career up for the very first time. So, with that, my leadership style is just really knowing first who I am wanting to lead. So, if it is leading the fellows program, then it is important to know the content that we share so I am able to answer questions and respond accurately. And also, being enthusiastic for the program itself is beneficial because enthusiasm can go a long way. I feel like people want to lead others who are happy about what they are doing, who have a joy in what they are doing. They do not want to follow someone who is dragging their feet or who is lackadaisical in regards to getting things done. I believe in always being sure that they are putting others needs to the forefront and not their own.

KB: What are your professional strengths and weaknesses?

ML: Professional strengths would include easy to get along with others, easy to work with, being somewhat detail-oriented, always looking at the details. Although, sometimes being detail-oriented can also be a weakness because being too much in the weed, so to speak, can really keep you from looking at the bigger picture and pushing forward for innovation. I would also add that I have the ability to listen. That is key. Listening to others is always very applicable no matter what you do because you never want to short someones response by trying to chime in. Take a pause, listen, and then sometimes you have to count five seconds before you even respond just so you can have something clear to say. Some weaknesses include the fact that I can be detailed. I know I said detail-oriented as a strength, but it can also be a weakness because I can get detailed to a point that I fail to plan ahead, and I look at the here and now versus what is to come. So, once I get the here now accomplished and get it set where I need it to be, I can hit the go button. However, if I have something happening in a month or two months from now, I need to start looking at that now versus when it gets here. So, planning ahead is a weakness, which I am working on. It is something I have been working on this past year and trying to make sure I can execute well. And, sometimes a weakness can also be too much enthusiasm.

KB: What or who has been your greatest influence?

ML: That is another great question. I do not believe it can be a specific singular person. Rather, it is many people. I do find a lot of influence in my personal life just from family members. I have also found it form those in my professional life, from people I have worked with. There are people that I worked with in the past, whether it is at ChickFilA or not, that I will go to and just have conversations with to get counsel, whether because they are older in age or they have a higher tenure in the business or some sort of professional field. I always feel like I can go to certain people that I keep kind of in what I like to call my cluster, my handful of people that I can reach out to. It is made up of people I respect because of their life experience and their professional work experience. One thing I always like to share with young people specifically is get to know the generation that is not one, but two generations ahead of you. Get to know the people who have been here for 20, 30, 40, 50 years, who have done what you have done and who can speak into that because history has a way of repeating itself, and you can learn a lot from people who have been in a business or an organization or in a community for 40 years or 50 years. A lot of similarities can be between then, say 1975, and 2018.

KB: Leaders hope to turn ideas into action and empower others. How do you accomplish this?

ML: Okay, say that again.

KB: Leaders help to turn ideas into action and empower others. How do you accomplish this?

ML: I will be honest with you. I can have ideas and sometimes it is difficult to turn my ideas into action. I tend to follow first, so I can get an understanding before I step into a leadership role. I tend to come into programs or come into activities that have already been existing and look for ways to make them better. I go off of what is already been established, often an established idea, and question, "how can I make what you have done in the last two years better for the third and fourth year," and that eventually when I feel like I have hit a plateau or a ceiling where I cannot contribute much more, that is time for someone else to step in and do the same thing. When I can lead off of an existing idea I do well. If I have an idea, a lot of it comes from group involvement and feedback. For example, we have a program that I am a part of in this business, but it is called the True Inspiration Awards. It is a Gala in which we highlight and recognize and award funds to organizations who are doing good works in their community. They apply for this through a grant application process and they can receive 50, 75, some $100,000 for their organization because of their good works. When this started four years ago we were trying to figure out a logo for it. We saw different renderings and whatnot, and it just happened to be I walked in the office at one day and saw some of the ideas and the logo itself being true inspiration and it being related to ChickFilA and Truett Cathy and his impact he had just from selling Coca-Colas in his neighborhood at 8 years old or all the good works he has done through the Atlanta community (such as) different organizations that give back to senior citizens or to kids specifically, it was named for him to some regard. So, honestly, I went in and said, "those logos look like trash." And they said, "well what do you want to do?" And I said, "well, if it is named after Truett, why do not you do it in Truetts handwriting?" And it was through group involvement and through feedback that we finally got it down to where I took Truetts signature, cut it in half, and used the T R U E from Truett. We took off the two Ts and we used Truetts signature, legitimately his signature, and put True Inspiration Awards, with True being in Truetts handwriting. And that has been the logo ever since and has actually become one of the hallmarks of the program because it is an impact that he had, and it is something that is living through the work that he created. So, I do not know is that answered the question, but I will say that group work is important because more heads are better than one. So, get more people around you. Do not be afraid to have people in your area and your circle that are smarter than you. That is where you learn from. You are never the smartest person and there is always someone who knows something else that you do not know. Use that, learn from it, grow from it. It makes you better. KB: Do you feel it is important to delegate? If so, why? When and how do you delegate?

ML: This is very hard for me. I like to do all the work myself and I have learned, and this has been one of those things in this past year where I have taken on more responsibility in my role because I am planning just one programming event, but I am planning four simultaneously and I cannot do four simultaneous programs at the same time. And so, with that, it is really being confident in the team I bring around. So, for me, delegating, is making sure I have the right people in the right place. Something we use here is having the right people in the right seat on the bus. We want to make sure everyone is doing the role that they are being asked to do, that they are equipping to do and that is key. You want to make sure everyone is equipped to do the work you are asking them to do so, you cannot ask them to go wash a car without giving them a soap and bucket and so, what we have is putting the right people in the right place and having trust and faith in them that they are going to do the work you ask them. But, you have to be clear. Again, another phrase that we have been saying a lot lately is clear is kind and unclear is unkind. The clearer you can be with the team you put in place, the better your work will be.

KB: How do you measure success and how do you learn from failure? Two-part question.

ML: Measuring success is different depending on what you are doing. So, if it is something where you want data, in regards to numerical quantitative data, then figure out how you are going to measure that in regards to asking the right questions, getting the right information back from an event, or from a program or from whatever activity you are doing. If it is just in regards to having the right number of people show up at an event, let that be your success rate. Honestly, measuring success is just dependent on what you are looking for. The audience you have to share your information with should be considered. What are they more interested in? In this business I work on a team where I have half a team who are more interested in figures. They like the quantitative, measurable, numerical data. I have another half of the team who like the sentimental emotional data. They like the hardcore, "they took this from this program," or "they learned X, Y, and Z," or "they accomplished fill-in-the-blank." "How do we know they have accomplished that?" Let us do a survey. Surveys are great sometimes. But, we are not going to test people. We have to have faith and trust that they are learning what we are providing to them. The second part of the question was failure?

KB: How do you learn from failure?

ML: I love this. So, the biggest things I have ever done in my life have always been learned from a failure in my past. So, I am very driven on being successful. I will say I do put a lot of pressure on myself to always be successful, but sometimes being successful does not always mean you win. Sometimes learning from a mistake in which you might have made a clerical error on a budget, you know, and you have to go back and face facts. Be adult enough and be a man or woman enough to step up and say yes, I made a mistake and I will not make it again. Take that and learn from it or always be willing to accept criticism and constructive feedback. Criticism and feedback and constructive criticism and feedback is never, in my mind, negative. It is always a growing opportunity. If you go into a conversation with two or three people and they decide to give you feedback even without you asking for it, take a sit back, ask yourself where is this coming from, and why would they be giving this to me, and then say how can I take what they are giving me and use it for good for the future. Everything is a learning opportunity whether in your mind is a good or bad situation. Be willing to learn from your mistakes and grow from your mistakes. But understand that when people give you feedback it is coming from a place of love and growth.

KB: What are two or three action steps you believe are essential to enable others to be successful?

ML: Two or three action steps to enable others to be successful. Personally speaking, putting more responsibility on someone will do the trick. But again, being clear with the responsibility in what you are looking for. Giving a specific task to see how that person reacts and responds. Maybe it is giving them a certain event or activity or program or project to be in charge of. What are you looking for from them in that in that leadership role? Are you looking for them to really be boots on the ground or be the high level leader and have others help and assist with the work? Honestly, an actual item is really putting trust in somebody and letting them run the ball sometimes. Being aware of your surroundings and what you are doing. Sometimes you might need to say, "I need to take a step back and trust my team." That can be tough, even for me. It is very tough delegating. How do you let somebody go with something you feel so strongly about, and you hold close to yourself? You want it to be successful and it is a reflection on you, but you have people around you to help you make it successful. Trust those people. Challenge yourself and take a step back. I had to do that this year and it is working well. And having that challenge for me to take a step back and work with the people who I have put in place, it is helping me see I have more capacity to do more work, which is awesome. Our team is involved in making the world a better place because of a chicken sandwich. We are making the world a better place because of our other people, our colleagues in this business, selling a chicken sandwich. So, "how can I be a part of that," is a question I ask myself.

KB: I think it is also a lot about letting go of control, which is something that I struggle with.

ML: When you let go of control you will grow as a person in so many ways. I can tell you it is very hard for me to be in the backseat of a project. I like to be on the forefront because I have a vision in my head of what it is going to look like, but it is up to me to articulate that vision to someone else, so they can see it and, as a leader, to have them get behind what I am sharing with them. So, it is been a challenge, but it is been a good learning and a good challenge this year and it is being shown, honestly, through fellows program and through other things that we do like ChickFilA Leader Academy. And in the different projects we have had existing for many years that we are now looking at how can we update? How can we reimagine what it looks like because maybe it is not going to be the same going forward. If it is going to be the same intent, we can change it. We can marry the mission and date the methods, and that is what we try to do. We want to marry the mission behind the value we are trying to put in place but want to date the methods of how we do that.

KB: What advice do you have for building relationships and trust in an organization?

ML: Give people cookies. So, for me, it was a little bit easier. As hard as it may seem, I am more of an introvert, in regards to, I get more energy being aside, alone, heads down, but I have the ability to come out and really engage with others well. Going back to being able to listen to people and learning peoples stories. A lot of the times people want to get right into the work and just say hey tell me about what you are doing. But, if you take a step back and take a pause, and I will give credit-this is something I learned from my VP that is over my department-never immediately ask about someones work but ask about the person as individual. "Hey, tell me where you from. What do you like to do?" Get to know the person, kind of prod a little bit in regards to just getting to know someone one-on-one. Even if you are in a room of 50 people, someone is standing in front of you and you are having a conversation with that one person. Get to know that one person right then and there and you can make connections, and then you eventually will get into the work. So, building relationships and building trust is know when people can come to you with different circumstances, different problems, different scenarios and situations, that they know you are going to be successful in and they can trust you with that work. But it comes with a success record. You do not want to go to somebody who is always failing, you know, you can learn from failure, but you also have some success along the way. And so, go to someone you know who is going to do the work and take ownership of that work and that ownership comes with they are leading the project, they have the team of place, they are going to make it happen. Does that help?

KB: Yeah, that answers the question. Okay, this next question is a big one. What do you want your legacy to be?

ML: My legacy.

KB: You can name like one or two things like right off the top.

ML: What I want my legacy to be? That is a deep question, even for 31 years old that is a deep question. I think I would want my legacy to be known as someone who treated people with honor, dignity, and respect. That that may sound cheesy, but honestly, it is something that I do reverberate with and resonate with just because of this business. It is something I do feel is pertinent in everyday situations. I want to make sure that whatever project and work I am involved with and involved in, people can see that I am treating them with full and utmost honor, dignity, and respect. You can accomplish a lot more when you treat people how they would want to be treated and how they should be treated. And honestly, just being known for someone who had a way of connecting with people, who always had happy moments, and yeah, there is going to be sad things at some point, but really, he always had more of an optimistic approach to life. Someone a little bit more upbeat and would not let the mundane get him down. Being able to impact young people to create change, to really see that they can have an area of impact and influence with those around them. I know I have talked to you about this and with some of your colleagues as well about this, and this is from again my VP who I just have a lot of respect for, but really having a chance to show people that they can impact those that are three feet around them and the three feet grows and it grows from the next person and then the next you know? Being able to change the world in some way, whether it is in your little town, if it is at your workplace, you know, changing the world does not have to mean on a global scale. It can change the world in your little 30-minute radius of a town. That is a deep question. I might have to come back to that one later. Did you come up with that question?

KB: No.

ML: That was in the project?

KB: It is the last one for this set of questions.

ML: Oh, okay.

KB: How does your faith play a role in your work?

ML: For me personally, my faith is very much built into my work. A lot of people assume because I work at ChickFilA I am a southern, Baptist Christian, white male, and I mean, yes, I am a white male. Yes, I am a Christian. No, I am Southern Baptist. I am a Christian in faith. And I have been blessed to be a part of an organization that I know the owners align with my personal values and beliefs and morals. I can feel very safe in living out my faith in the workplace, which is not normal, nor common, anywhere else you go. However, I am always aware too, that even in ChickFilA, it is a place where everyone is not the same. We have many faiths and religions here: Muslim, Hindu, Buddhists. There is a lot of different religions represented: Greek Orthodox, I mean I am getting into specifics now, Irish Catholics…all over the board. My faith, I mean it is pretty solid, but it is because this business that helps grow my faith.

KB: Yeah.

ML: I will add-sorry to interrupt you-I will add that faith does play into the business too, because the work I do, so being in Community Affairs and doing work on behalf of the ChickFilA Foundation, where part of the overall, what is called Corporate Social Responsibility, a lot of our work is community based. We are looking at how we can have an impact and influence, and I will say it is tough sometimes because people knowing that we work with ChickFilA, they look at it like we are coming to them from a Christian perspective. That may have a little small something to do with it. However, we are just trying to figure out how we can be a good corporate citizen and a good corporate partner to help grow and revitalize certain underserved communities. Without a strong faith in place it is very hard to get behind that work. Whether it is the faith of the individual, my personal beliefs system, or if it is the beliefs of the Cathy family, you know, they have a heart of service and a heart for change and they want to see how we can make change happen in our local communities. Faith plays a huge part in what you do. You can be spiritual warfare wherever you go. I have been blessed to be a part of an organization where my faith aligns with their values and morals, and like I said, that is not common at all.

KB: How do you view vulnerability in relation to leadership? Do you believe a good leader should be vulnerable leader? If so, why?

ML: We have been talking a lot about this lately. Say the first part of the question again.

KB: How do you view vulnerability in relation to leadership?

ML: A leader who can be vulnerable, I think is good. However, as a leader, you still have to have some sort of resilience, but being open to recognize struggles and successes. Vulnerability is not just about a pain point or about something that you are struggling with, it is also being vulnerable to share your successes. A lot of people do not do that. This is something I do struggle with, I will be honest with you, because I have conflicting feelings on this one. I want leaders to be vulnerable, but at the same time, I do not need to know everything. I do not want to know everything. You tell me what I need to do and what I need to know for this moment in time. And be open with me about it. Please do not hide what I need to know to do my job well. So again, having the people in the right seat on the bus and making sure you are being clear with them…clear is kind, unclear is unkind. I think that plays into a little bit of your vulnerability how clear can you be, and do you want to be for your team? That is a good question because, legitimately, ChickFilA this past year as a corporate entity, we have really been doing deep dives into what it means to be vulnerable. And so, every team here has been challenged with meeting as a team and understanding for your team, what does vulnerability look like? Does it mean being open with each other?

KB: Because it looks different.

ML: It looks very different depending on what team you are on. Vulnerability for us in corporate social responsibility is going to be different, viewed differently than it would be for somebody who is working in talent acquisition, where they are trying to select talent to work in the office. They cannot be as open as you would want. You have to be a little more professional, buttoned up, a little bit more formal, quote-unquote, in that regard. For us, we are vulnerable in the community from the CSR perspective. That is a hard question. I want a leader to be vulnerable and feel like they can be vulnerable. But sometimes you need more strength from a leader in regards to just being the firm figurehead for a team. Okay, what was the second part of my question?

KB: Do you believe a good leader should be a vulnerable leader? If so, why?

ML: Again, I think a good leader should be a vulnerable leader to some extent. You do not want someone who is full-on open emotionally. When I think of vulnerability, I will be honest, I think of more emotional vulnerability versus being personally vulnerable and professionally vulnerable in regards to putting all the cards on the table. There is a limit that you should have for yourself. Each person has a different limit. Mine is going to be different from my coworker and, I will be honest, people tell me I am probably too open, but that is just always been my personality. I felt like there is nothing to ever hide. However, in the work I do personally, there are certain times when need to take a pause and get some more foundation to my thought before I share it on more broad terms. So yes, vulnerability I think is helpful as a leader, but you have to know when to be vulnerable and when not to be vulnerable. For me, vulnerability can be opening up to share or it can mean kind of sit on it for a minute, take a pause. Those were good questions. Some of those are really hard questions too, wow. Any question you want to revisit?

KB: I was going to ask if you had anything to add, if there were any lingering thoughts?

ML: Any experience that will shape you as leader is probably one where it is going to stretch you. Put yourself in a position or you might find yourself in a position somewhere else down the road that you will be stretched. If you ever sitting in a space where you are content, then you need to look for something to add to it. You need to always be thinking how I can stretch myself to better myself. When you feel like you are at the end of your line and your rope in regards to like a workload or an event or project is just really getting at you, you are being stretched. Any experience I have had, and I am thinking of a few where I have been stretched and I mean late nights, some all-nighters for work, you know all-nighters do not go away after college, sometimes they happen even in professional career. It stretches you, but the benefit of being a part of an organization, like the one I am in, is you have a supportive structure called your team, the people you work closely with. I am curious, how would you characterize my leadership style?

KB: How would I characterize it?

ML: Yes, you have experienced it for about four or five months now. KB: I would say-

ML: -And I am open to honesty.

KB: You hit the ball on enthusiasm. That is something I really admire. You mentioned people want to follow a leader that is passionate and enthusiastic about what they are doing, and they see the vision and they are trying to get people behind it. The more upbeat and enthusiastic someone is, the more I am willing to follow them more to than someone who is not as passionate or seems dull.

ML: An area for growth is always being clear. That is always an area for growth and that is the biggest struggle for me. I say things and it can be very vague and I have to remind myself to reel it in a little bit, just state the facts, be clear, be soft with the delivery. Sometimes, and I will be honest this is probably one of my weaknesses, my delivery can be very blunt, so I have to keep in mind with the audience in front of me, can this person handle a blunt conversation or comment, or does it need to be a little bit more soft and delivered a little bit more lightly but still get the point across. And there are ways to do that.

KB: How do you balance knowing when you can have like a blunt conversation verses reigning it in a little bit?

ML: It goes back to knowing the person, building those relationships. If I had just met you today and we were in an activity that we were part of, I do not know you from Adam or Eve, so I would need to figure out "how does Kelly work?" How do you receive information? Sometimes people receive information auditory. Sometimes they have to see it by being a part of the action and doing an activity. If I was to get to know you, I would honestly have to simply ask are you okay with feedback and going about it that way, asking the person first permission can I give you feedback. And if they say yes, then that leaves me the availability to be as open as I need to be but still being a little more soft, knowing it my head what I am trying to say, and making sure before it gets my mouth and outside of my body that I have said it before because sometimes I have a tendency to speak before I think and that can be a hindrance and it can lead to certain situations and having to backpedal. Kind of think ahead again. Another learning: always looking ahead of a problem or situation or an event or activity to see what is any scenario that could happen. But it goes back to just getting to know a person. So again, before you ask about the work, tell me about yourself-"where are you from? How is your family doing? How are your brothers doing? Their great? Good. Clemson is doing well? Awesome!" The more you make someone feel that you personally care, like actually being genuinely thoughtful and caring for another person, you build a tighter relationship. I mean you probably see that just from your experience with the ChickFilA fellows in regards, you have built relationships with fellows you met for the first time in this past summer and over the last four months, you are still communicating with them even outside of our scheduled communications, through our Facebook group and other outlets. There you go. You are getting to know people personally and that is going to build something later. You may not know what it is yet, who knows honestly, you know, what could happen after this year-long program. It is building that network, but not being scared open up and being aware that everyone has a story. And just learning the story. Just learning a story. The question about delegating was also a good one. If people can learn how to delegate early on, it is for the better. You do not ever have to take on everything on your own.

KB: Because it is more than delegating-it is trusting and giving up control and no one likes to do that.

ML: Right but think about it when you delegate it is because you have people that you do trust, like you said, and we have been able to clearly share a vision, you know, the experiences we have built into this program. It is not just me and Jess, who you met earlier, it is me, and then we have Tracy on the back end and we have Jill on the back end and then Caleb on the back end and you see them once in a blue moon, but when they are here, they are fully onboard and aware of what is happening. And we all have the same common goal: to make the best, most remarkable experience we can possibly have for the opportunity to help lead and grow future leaders, whether those people are going to be in a classroom, in a doctors office, if they are going to be an attorney, if they are going to be leading community organizations, who knows what it could be. Yeah, I think the two or three action steps is a hard question. I am trying to think what I think said for that one. KB: You mentioned responsibility, giving others specific, clear tasks and again, putting trust in others.

ML: Yes, being able to also mentor people and being open to listening to their side is important. Something we learned this past semester as our group is expecting the best, and understanding what the expectation is but understanding where that person is coming from. Be aware of what is happening in that persons personal life and professional life because that can play into the work they are producing. And back to "what do you want your legacy to be?" That was a tough question. Okay, anything else?

KB: I think that is all my questions.

ML: That was awesome!