Interview with Mickey Rechkemer, November 18, 2019

Addison Roelandts: Okay, so, what position are you in right now and what organization do you work for?

Mickey Rechkemer: Aha, I own the Achievers Business Advisors, which is an international business advising firm. And I have been doing this for almost seven years now. Okay, so was that too much of an answer?

AR: No, that was perfect! Alright, so what part of your personal biography or background led you to the position that you are in now?

MR: Well, I took this as an opportunity because I had been executive at a Fortune 500 company. I was involved in a company that was a start up that we did sell to the Fortune 500, and I gained a lot of experience from being involved with many different parts of business. So it's probably something I worked into and I had a lot of comments from people that you're really good at this, you are really good at working with folks, and you are good at building and replicating a business and that is what brought me into this.

AR: Okay, so it takes being a people person in order to get into there (that position).

MR: I think so. Relationships are key to everything that we do.

AR: Definitely, yes, and next I would like to ask you what cultural identities or experiences are most salient for you?

MR: What cultural experiences?

AR: Yes, what cultural experiences.

MR: Oh my, currently or when I grew up?

AR: You could answer both.

MR: (laughter) I was only looking for one. The salient cultural things that I think is important right now is there is a lack of relationships. Meaning there is a lot of people that are connected together, but those connections do not mean anything more than they are a checked mark in a sense there. They are a part of a program or something that they are trying to build a number of people to talk with or connect with. And that goes a long ways in the sense of it's great that you have good connections that are made, but are they valued connections? And so when I'm looking at ways to connect with people I first start by finding out who is in my list of contacts, who may potentially be on the list of a contact of someone else I know but I may not have a strong relationship with. So I start to build those relationships. Tear drop them into the next level so that I can get to the people that I want to work with. Umm years ago it was who you knew that made a difference, today I think it is who you have contacts with, can make a connection with, and that's the relationships that I am talking about.

AR: Yeah, is it almost like a hierarchal system where you have to know someone of importance in order to get what you want, and so you establish relationships with people in order to get to that highest power?

MR: The interesting thing is that they do not have to be someone of power to get a connection. In other words, because of relationships I can reach out to a neighbor who has contacts I don't have and that neighbor can connect me in even though that neighbor perhaps is the sister, the brother to someone who I am trying to get to. So it is not really hierarchal in any way. It could be, but not necessarily is that the case. The thing is that you do not know who other people know so until you ask, you start to move in a direction you won't be able to pull in those contacts you are trying to get to.

AR: Hmm it's similar to what they tell us often here in university is that the relationships that you have now will help you in the long run, because you never know where these people will end up that you have become friends with now.

MR: Exactly, very good.

AR: Alright, my next question is, what experiences have most shaped you as a leader?

MR: What experiences have most shaped me as a leader. I would have to definitely say my relationship with Jesus. Obviously, we've got to say that right up front. And that's maybe a known that not everybody has without understanding that key relationship it doesn't matter who we know or who we are connected to. That's , that's the biggest thing. Other influences.. what was the question again?

AR: Experiences, experiences that have shaped you, yes.

MR: I think from growing up in farm lands working on farms, all the way to taking on a role of kind of a um servant leader. I've got to serve to be able to know how to lead and I don't know how to lead people unless I know where they have been and what they have done. And the key to building those, those leadership roles is understanding that an employee or someone that is in your care, a lot of times does not realize how important they are until you talk to them and let them know that.

AR: Yeah, that's true.

MR: Yeah, as a manager of employees you've got to know and have a relationship with everybody not from a here's what to do part, but to get to know them on a personal basis all the way to help them understand how to be better in you know what they are doing. Because if I can help them be better as an employee then it will be easier for me to give them more tasks that I don't have to do and can pass to them and they can take over it and it then frees up my time to to go on to something new, which allows everybody to grow.

AR: Yes, now, were you called into leadership or did you seek it because of held convictions?

MR: (laughter)

AR: That's a good question.

MR: It is a really good question. I kinda like that one. Was I called into it or was I hmm-- I think in a way I was led into it. Led into it by the fact that others saw something in me that I couldn't see in myself. So-- it wasn't always natural but it was always something that I strived to do and I knew my commitment, I knew the opportunity that I had to work with someone, and that I was very dedicated and loyal. And that was a key attribute that everybody tended to look for or look at as a way to grow the business, or grow whatever it was I was looking at doing. Whether-- the talent didn't have to be there as much as you can teach talent but you can't teach somebody how to be a leader. You kinda see it and you work with it and you encourage and you embrace the idea of what it can be, not so much you know you're going to make this happen on your own. I don't see that. I need other people to help work with me.

AR: Yes, and part of that, do you think that part of the call into leadership or being led into leadership is also due to having faith in Christ as well? As He presents servant leadership exactly as you said before?

MR: Yeah, it's umm, I can describe it in a way that is not business related. I am a mediocre bass player in our band. There are lots of people that are far better than I am. So when I look at things from that perspective it's the why am I playing on Sunday mornings is not because of how good I am, but because of the heart I have towards Christ. What that means to lead the congregation, I am not a leader in a sense that I am in the background but I am in front of people and people look to me as a leader. So the heart that I have meant far more than the music ability that I have to play the bass, and that's what the praise band leader saw in me. Does that make sense?

AR: Yes, that does.

MR: I enjoy doing it. I love doing it and because I am not doing it for me but I am doing it for others and I am doing it for Christ.

AR: So then, how have you learned from obstacles and challenges that you have faced?

MR: How have I learned from obstacles and challenges. Well I think in many ways it's life experience. There are just so many things that you can never, you can try to anticipate or try and look for here is what's going to happen. You're in chemistry?

AR: Yes.

MR: You run an equation to find out what your answer is going to be, and you expect that reaction. And if it doesn't work out that way bam. You know not always did you.. oh I didn't measure this right or I didn't do this. There is always something that is going to be a little different than your focus on what you think is going to happen. But if everything works right, perfect, you got the results you were looking for. But when an obstacle comes in the way there's always a work around, and I say that in a sense of you don't have to have the answer, but you have to rise above the obstacle to see the future of what it can be. Or you have to look beyond the obstacle to see where you are trying to go and then the solution sometimes will present themselves. As a kid I would look at the obstacle and I would get depressed and that would be the end of it. (laughter) So one thing that I have learned is that to rise above your obstacle, to see what the decision is for the future or the answer that you are looking for and how do we find that is a matter of puzzle piecing things together.

AR: And that ties in with having a heart for what you are doing as well. Because you have to believe in what is happening in order to look beyond.

MR: You know, that's a great point, that's a great point Addison. Because maybe the belief that you are going to see where you're going to belong. You know, for us, Heaven is the goal and we believe we are going to be there. And that makes everything easier because we can trust in the Lord to take us where He wants us to be even though it won't be easy, but He will take us to where we need to be and that makes the opportunity of Heaven that much better for us. That's a good point, I like that.

AR: Okay, so now, what does leadership mean to you?

MR: Leadership means to me that I have the responsibility to help others to see what they cannot see, and help them believe in what they don't always believe, and to think that there's, there's always something easier. Here's an interesting, you made me think of some other thing. I'll use some examples.

AR: Alright.

MR: Are you in a room where you are sitting in a chair, or are you standing up, or where are you at?

AR: I am sitting in a chair. Yes, I am in a room.

MR: You're sitting in a chair, okay. Umm here's how people, look here's what I am trying to do is to use this is an example. Go ahead and stand up. So if you are standing up, how hard is it to stand up? It's not so hard is it?

AR: No.

MR: There's not a lot of energy being consumed, right?

AR: No, there's not.

MR: No, so standing up for yourself is something you have to always do. Okay? And so when you're in the right place to stand God has you in the right place, but here's what people tend to do. Turn around and look at the chair, and they'll look at the chair and they'll go I wonder who sat in that chair last, what if it was somebody who broke the chair leg, I wonder if that chair is really sturdy. I know it's a chair, but how do I know it's going to hold me up? And so they are cautious. And so here is what happens, squat down about three-quarters of the way like you are going to sit down on the chair, but just kinda stay in a squatting position.

AR: Alright.

MR: So if you do that long enough it is not too hard. But people tend to really make things more difficult than they really are. So someone else has to come along and say it's okay you can sit in that chair. But because people may then not want to do that they'll go about half way down and they'll sit there and they'll stay there in that half squatting position. And then they'll go, now this is starting to get a little bit harder.

AR: Mhm, it does.

MR: Yes, okay, but the end result is you realize that chair can really hold you up. You know that chair has four legs, as most chairs do. And each of those legs represents trust and the ability to understand the future a little bit, in the sense that you have a vision for the future, but if you have everything present there that's what's supporting you up. But the hard thing is people will still not trust in the fact that if I sat in the chair it is going to hold me up, and they will realize that I have a place to be so they will go about a quarter of the way down. But it's still pretty hard to do. Not until they fully relax and let go and sit down in the chair do they realize how easy it would have been from the beginning to go from a standing position to a seated position. And trust that the Lord has something in place for you and that chair is your relationship. So sometimes we have to talk people into believing what they already know, and the fact that they already understand the mechanics of that chair, the mechanics that they can do what needs to be done next, but they need an encourager to know that it is okay to move in that direction. Or for some people it's even, there is a chair there and as a leader we have to teach them there is a chair and here's how to make it easy to sit down. Did that help you? Or was I just talking in circles?

AR: Yes. No, no, that makes perfect sense. It's definitely something that I've even personally needed that encouragement. Um yes, so I completely understand where you are coming from in that aspect of what leadership is.

MR: So helping people see what they can't see and to do what they can't do, and complete a task is important and that's I think what a leader has to lay the stage for that. You also have to have a vision for what they see the future can hold. In other words, they may not know the whole plan but they know where they want to go. You know if, if we don't have a place where we want to go we'll never get anywhere, because we'll never reach our destination.

AR: Yes, that's true. Well I've had my leg workout now for the day!

MR: Oh sorry, you can sit down. (much laughter)

AR: Alright, so now my next question is, how would you characterize your leadership style?

MR: A collaborative leadership style.

AR: Collaborative.

MR: Everything as an advisor, everything that we do is being alongside of the business owner, I am alongside of them helping them to see some things differently. I am there helping them to know it's just a good idea, I kinda help them talk it through, but they are the ones that are going to do the work.

AR: Yeah, you can't do it for them.

MR: Yeah, if they get the encouragement that they need and they can see that it is possible they can understand and talk through with somebody. Here is all the different things that we are not sure of, but we can handle some of these if these do occur. Now, that business owner feels very capable of making things happen and they run with that. No different than an employee, no different than anyone in a volunteer position. It's like collaborative means, we will work together at it, it doesn't always mean now I am going to do all the work. Kind of like a lab partner in chemistry. If one lab partner does all the work, the other one sits back, who learns more? The person doing the work.

AR: The one who is doing the work, yeah.

MR: Now it's easy to watch someone else do it but the bottom line is it doesn't give you the skills to keep moving ahead.

AR: Exactly. So who or what has been your greatest influence?

MR: Who or what has been my greatest influence. Influence in myself? Influence as a leader?

AR: Influence as a leader.

MR: Influence as a leader, okay. Umm does it have to be a person?

AR: It could be, yes.

MR: Okay, well I'll start off first with my dad who set up the opportunity for me to understand that life is choices. And the life of choice is much better when you have choices than when you don't have choices. So if you're as a leader, if you don't have a choice, you're kinda pushed into a corner it's going to be very frustrating, it's going to be very difficult. And my dad always taught me to, you know, don't go into a situation where you pin yourself in a corner, pin yourself in a corner out so that you have choices of where you want to go from there, you never want to get yourself caught. And I think that was a good leadership kind of understanding as time went on. But it has to be the Word of God in my mind that teaches so much because as a leader you can't get a better example than Christ.

AR: Have you ever been put in a situation or leadership position where umm you were put in a corner, where there were no choices, or where you, you just knew how to create choices in order to get into a better situation from there?

MR: A lot of times there are times of no choice because of well getting laid off, then you have no choice.

AR: Yeah, that's true.

MR: Yeah, in a recent example I was let go from a position that was an extra money maker for me but it was because of the relationship I was in it, and that business owner did not feel that I was in his best interest. So he decided to change and I don't have any control over someone else's perspective. But when that happens though, I still have a choice of what I am going to do. I cannot be depressed, I cannot be concerned about what happened, but continue to look at what's next what's next. What are the opportunities, where should I be, where does God really want me to be?

AR: So leaders help to turn ideas into action and empower others, how do you accomplish this or how have you accomplished this?

MR: I think it is finding the right people for the task, and or finding out, you gotta find out what people are good at and really start to work with their strengths to help them to see past and get the next step in or the project finished if it's a project. As a leader you have to work with them, that's where you get the relationship of knowing who they are, and helping them see what they can be where they can't see themselves. That's again, it's that collaborative part and without a relationship you cannot be collaborative, you can be more directive at that point and that's not always going to get a team motivated to move ahead and that's not always going to get a team that wants to work together. But when you can help them see the benefit of each other and why each other is on that team or involved with that project, and you are leading them down the path of watching to make sure you are keeping folks accountable through to where they should be going then you can reach the end result.

AR: Is it difficult whenever others don't want to work with other people, whenever they want to work solo?

MR: It is, and then it becomes the question of is it a I don't want to or I can't. So you have to distinguish which direction they are at. If it's I can't, what is it that you can't do, help me to understand. Because if it's a can't, if it is something we can overcome, then lets overcome that or lets encourage whatever it is so we can make sure that you get there. If it's a no I won't do that then you are the wrong person on the team or it's not a good fit type of a vibe. So that's where you have to understand people and they have to understand what they are there for. So if it's an I won't, let's move on and you are out let's find somebody else who will, and if it's a can't let's find out what the problem is and fix that or identify what that obstacle is and what we might do to attack that and a choice that works best forward and if not an I won't if it's an I won't then it's time to move on.

AR: I know we've talked about this with collaboration, but do you feel that it is important to delegate?

MR: Absolutely, I think delegation done correctly motivates people to do more.

AR: So then how or when do you delegate?

MR: How or when do I delegate. Every opportunity I can, and here's what happens to a leader. People will call you to leadership in a smaller group because of whatever their reason is, sometimes it's an I don't want to be the leader so you're the leader. So if that's the case then great I'll be the leader and you're going to start with the things that need to happen next, what you need to do, how can we keep moving in that direction. Or if say you're the leader because you are the best choice and you know how to help people and you know how to lead, and so we want to follow you, whatever you're going to do we will follow you. And when that happens you have everybody willing to commit and that will spread the workload down so everybody can get this done easily. And if it's done easily then everybody enjoys it, everybody loves it, and they want to start to do more. Is that the answer you are looking for? Does that solve the question?

AR: Yes, that does answer the question. So now how do you measure success?

MR: These are really good questions. How do I measure success?

AR: Yes.

MR: I measure success based on if it's a project, did we finish the project timely, time cost, if everybody is satisfied it is a success. Sometimes it is a milestone success, in other words, if it's a long project you have to take milestones and reach these little individual goals for the big goal to be accomplished, and each one of those successes brings us closer to the end result. So umm how do I measure success? Basically, did we do the right things, did we do it in a way that makes sense and everybody wins, and if everybody wins to me that's a success.

AR: So in correlation with that question, how do you learn from failure?

MR: How do you learn from failure? That's another good one, I like these. (laughter) Well let's start by saying everyone fails, and the success rate of people that are so important that they look like man they are so successful, there's thousands of failures before they got to that success part. So when you are looking at failures, I have to look back on was it something I could control or was it something I had no control over. In other words, was I a participant in the failure and if I was, I will own up to it based on that experience what should I have done or what could I have done differently that would have given me a different result. And do your best not to do that again. But guess what, chances are I will do it again, so I'll learn a little bit a long the way only to get to a point where I need to, if I feel myself stepping into that again I should already have a perspective of don't do it that way I did it before, or do it a little differently. And sometimes it does take trial and error. Edison still got the light bulb going even though it took him a little while to get to that point.

AR: It's easy whenever you fail even if it's not the first time to wanna stop there and to just let things happen as they are, but--

MR: Yeah, I had a friend who calls himself a 32 year overnight success. It took a long time to get to those places and it took a lot of failures to get to that point, you know. Edison had a thousand times success with the lightbulb industry but it took him how many times to get to that point. That's how you get there. And I think the other thing you learn from failure is to not give up. And that not giving means it doesn't mean it has to be done immediately but it means you keep trying and you keep trying and you keep reaching that goal that you have a vision for.

AR: And these are things that can be applied not only in the workplace but also in your own life as well.

MR: Uhuh well the workplace is your life sometimes. It shouldn't be, but sometimes.

AR: Yes, it can come to that. So now what are two or three action steps that you believe are essential to enable others to be successful?

MR: Action steps that enable others to be successful. I think understanding the difference between a dream and the action that takes place. You need to know that. So in other words, I think it's a Japanese saying that's translated something like, I don't know if it's Japanese or not but it's a translation of, a vision without action is a dream; but action without a vision is a nightmare. So sometimes you have people that are just so action oriented, they don't have the vision and they just start, it's like a tornado coming in things just get crazy. But if you have the vision and then you take action then you've got what you need for the end. Don't let a dream stop you but make sure you know the vision of why you want to do it. So helping them understand that difference. The other is letting them have the opportunity to think about their end. So start with the end in mind till a lot of times where there is success, and if they have success. I will use the Achiever's Business Advisors way of looking at things we call it PACE your business for success. So we look at four things in a small businesses owner, are they with PACE our acronym. P, are they getting a paycheck, if not we've gotta help you get a paycheck let's find a way to get a paycheck. If they are getting a paycheck then is that the paycheck you would like to take home with you. Oh no you'd like more, great, let's look at how we can make that happen. So when people go into business they tend to go in because they see someone else's success and the activities that they do in that success. So the P, payroll, paycheck, that pays activities. Are they looking to do the activities they wanted to do? Gee if I went into business for myself then I would have more time with my family, gee if I went into business for myself I could golf like so and so golfs and go out and play golf everyday, or I could go travelling. I could do all these things. So the question is what did you want to do, what kind of activities do you want to do and is that working for you? It's not how do we make that work. Then, C, is the credits you are building up for your future. In other words, credits could be nothing more than are you using your paycheck to fund the purchase of a house, is your house payed for, is your car payed for, do you have a vacation home, do you have investments taken care of, do you have IRA. Things that are going to build equity that you can put into your retirement. And then, E, in PACE says what is your exit strategy, what do you want in the end? Do you want to sell the business, do you want to hand the business to a family member, do you want to take it to a place where you can just close it down instead of walk away, do you want to liquidate everything, or do you want to have something where you can bring revenue in by? So those are the four ways I try and help business owners be successful.

AR: What advice do you have for building trust and relationships within an organization?

MR: Building trust and relationships..

AR: Trust and relationships.

MR: Right away it came to mind that you've got to be honestly true to yourself and honest as an individual.

AR: Yes, for sure.

MR: So that people will trust you. So I believe it was Churchill that said I don't listen to what people say I watch what they do. And if that's the case I hope that people see in me that I want them to have a good relationship with me because they want to be around me, and I want them to feel the same way. They can be open, they can be honest with a sense of who they are and not be fake. Because there are a lot of fake people out there.

AR: Sadly there are, yes. Because you also can't lead or give forth an example and not live by it yourself. Because there are also many people who will do that.

MR: Trust me, yeah, I was gonna say there are a lot of people who lead by the iron fist, you know. You will do as I say, you're an employee.

AR: Yes, exactly do as I say and not as I do.

MR: You're lucky you have a job, now do as I said. But it doesn't build trust if the person doesn't see the end result or give some kind of acknowledgement or some recognition of how important that was. And so I think that recognition has to come into play somewhere as well.

AR: Yeah, recognition.

MR: To make sure that people feel valued. If they don't feel valued you will not have trust and you will never build that relationship.

AR: Alright, this is the final question.

MR: I'm ready.

AR: What do you want your legacy to be?

MR: What do I want my legacy to be?

AR: Yes.

MR: Of course you would ask me something hard like that wouldn't you. I think that from a legacy perspective, that he was a godly man, who you could trust, that was true to his word, helped other, was a real servant. If I don't get that then it doesn't matter if I was a family man or anything else so.

AR: Wow, well thank you for the interview.

MR: Wow, thank you Addison, fantastic questions! I'm excited to hear how all this goes.