Interview with Melinda Upchurch, November 11, 2019

MAKENZIE

Alright. Okay. The first question is what leadership positions have you held in your lifetime, and how have they influenced your current role as a leader today?

MELINDA

I've held a lot of leadership positions.

MAK

You have.

MELINDA

I have-- and in college, I would say those leadership positions helped me get a grasp and help me form a lot of the principles that I have now. I was the vice president of the Student Government at ETSU, and I was also vice president of my sorority at ETSU, and with that came a lot of, obviously, leadership responsibilities, that a lot of other responsibilities-- ways to do things and what's expected of you, and that's when I first kind of felt, "I'm in a position of leadership," and I don't really mean that in a bad way. It was kind of like learning/training ground for me, and of course after that I was able to hold a few positions at a church that I was at. I taught in Children's Ministry and then moved on-- well, I was a teacher, and I was on a couple committees for the Tennessee Association of Christian Schools, and then I was the assistant Children's Minister and then the Children's Minister for Celebration Church, and during that time was able to form Love Share, and now currently trying to just run Love Share.

MAK

Yeah. That's awesome, and it's the perfect segway into the next question, which is, "What is your current position with Love Share, and what is Love Share's mission statement/objective?

MELINDA

Okay. My position for Love Share is founder and executive director. Our mission statement is we partner with established orphanages in third world countries to help provide education, sponsorship, and assistance through things like hygiene and clothing items. Our primary focus is that we believe you can break the poverty cycle through education, and that is our goal: to get as many of those kids in the orphanages in school and educated, so that when they come out, they can get a job and be productive in society because otherwise, the poverty cycle continues, and they would not have an education. It's just a cycle, so we want to break that cycle by school so they can be productive members of society.

MAK

That's awesome. Good, good, good. Now, what cultural identities/experiences are most salient for you?

MELINDA

Will you repeat that question?

MAK

Yes. What cultural identities/experiences are most salient for you? What is most important?

MELINDA

Yes. I guess the most important thing for me is education. That is the MOST important thing-- that we can give these kids an education and they can get an education because without an education, they're not going to do anything productive or get any jobs. Our goal is to help them to do that and not wait for things like education IN the orphanages.

MAK

Right. Right, right, right. Perfect. Okay. Moving on-- what experiences have most shaped you as a leader overall? This can be recent or a million years ago-- just which ones stand out the most to you?

MELINDA

I'm going to give you a very real answer, and the experiences that have most shaped me in life are every single time that I have failed.

MAK

Can you repeat that for me?

MELINDA

Every single time that I have failed--

MAK

Oh, good. Yes.

MELINDA

Because I think that everything that I have tried or done in life in general, every time that I have failed at something, I have learned a lesson. So, failure is not necessarily a bad thing as long as you are continually learning from it.

MAK

Right. No, that's awesome. I very agree

MELINDA
And I think a lot of people are scared to try something new or step out on a limb or jump out off the cliff, or whatever analogy you want to use because they are mostly scared of failure, but what they don't realize is they need to go ahead and do it. You're going to fail no matter where you are. If you're sitting in an office, you're going to fail. If you're on the mission field, you're going to fail regardless. You're going to have struggles in life, but might as well keep witnessing because it's important, and it will change a life.

MAK

Right. Right. That's crucial. That's so important. Alright. The next question is, "Were you called into leadership, or did you seek it because it held convictions? Was this something that you were called to, or did you look for it?

MELINDA

No. I was called into leadership. I was in college, and there was a trip that took us to an evening service that had by an African children's choir, and I balled my eyeballs out the entire service, and I knew after that service that I was supposed to work with kids and that God was calling me to work with children, and I thought that he wanted me to help orphans, but I wasn't so sure about that, and I knew he wanted me to work with kids, so I said, "Okay. I'm supposed to work with kids and teach kids." So that's what I set out to do, and then I guess that kind of solidified as I walked through my ministry with helping kids.

MAK

Yes. That's awesome. You kind of hit on this before, but this next question is, "How have you learned from obstacles and challenges you've faced through leadership?"

MELINDA

I have learned that every time you get knocked down, you have to get back up-- as hard as it may be or seem. I have learned that other people's opinions of you or the things that you do really do not matter because the only opinion that matters is God's. I have learned that I pull my interests and my identity and my calling on my life to be the person that I'm supposed to be from God and not from other people's focus. I have learned to listen to God's voice over everybody else's because a lot of times, what I have found, is God may tell me to do something or put a calling on my life, and other people don't understand. They think I'm crazy or nuts or that that's not going to happen, but I know that's not the truth, and then I do it. And then people are like "Oh my gosh, she did it," and then there's going to be people-- there have been people-- that are negative about it. After something big happens, after they said that I couldn't do it, and then I did it, they're quick to back me. "Well she did it, but blah blah blah blah blah," whatever.

MAK

Right. Right.

MELINDA.

I'm sorry. I'm just being really honest here-- just throwing in some life lessons in too.

MAK

No, you are so good. That is exactly what we need. There's some truth in everything that you said, so you are on the right track. Okay. We are going to dive-- we've been talking a lot about general leadership, but we are going to get a little bit more specific. What specifically does leadership mean to you?

MELINDA

Leadership means being the very best person that I can be every single day. When I say being the best person I can be, that means waking up in the morning and saying, "Okay, God. What do you want me to do today?" and then following that. Also, in following that, you have to be careful of the example that you're setting.

MAK

Yes. can you expound on that a little bit?

MELINDA

Yes. I am careful to try to encourage others, and I am careful to share my expectations and my personal failures for others to gain wisdom from them and hopefully not make the mistakes that I have made. I think it's really important to make sure that as a leader, you are gracious-- and there's lots of times that in my flesh, I've wanted to fire an employee or something-- be upset with them, but I need to realize that God is gracious to me, and I need to, in turn, be gracious to them, and I may not know their whole story behind whatever happened that caused them to miss a deadline, not get something done, fail on a project-- Does that make sense?

MAK

Yes oh one hundred percent.

MELINDA

And don't get me wrong. I think there is a time when the rubber hits the road, and you have to let somebody go for not doing their job, but I have been known to be very gracious. Some may say I'm probably too gracious.

MAK

Yes. There's a balance.

MELINDA

There is a balance.

MAK

There is a balance. So, kind of piggybacking off of this, how would you best describe or characterize your leadership style?

MELINDA

I am pretty easy-going in the respect that I love people and take ownership of things and projects-- even things that I'm going to say aren't mine, per say. I want other people to have that ownership, leadership, and I want somebody to be able to take something and run with it without me having to look over their shoulder every single second of the project, and I want to be able to let them put their own selves and their own ideas into the project, so I'm really good about that. I struggle in the area of perfectionism. I would like everything to be perfect and to go in a certain way, so I do struggle with that a little bit. I am sure you know that from your time spent with me.

MAK

Yes, but we love you all the more for it.

MELINDA

I know.

MAK

You kind of touched on this with the past couple questions, but I'm going to ask this next question to give you the opportunity to say some things you may not have said if you want to, but you can skip over it if you want to.

MELINDA

My professional strengths and weaknesses-- Well, I would say my perfectionism is a strength and a weakness. I am extremely organized. That is probably a strength. I don't know that you can be too organized. I am really outgoing. I am really friendly. A weakness in my particular area that I am in is going to sound really funny coming out of my mouth probably, but I am going to say a weakness in my particular area is probably feeling unworthy. I say that because there are lots of times when I am speaking around the world at huge churches or at women's conferences, or wherever, and I'm like, "I am so not fit for this. I am so not worthy." Then I find myself asking the Lord, "Why do you have me here, doing this?" and also find myself looking at my life or circumstances or things in my life or people in my life and thinking I don't have it all together. I am a mess, and why are you choosing to put me in this position at this particular moment to witness to people or be an example to people when sometimes I don't even feel like I am worthy of that in my own hometown. Does that make sense?

MAK

That makes perfect sense. It's one of those things that I feel like a lot of people, especially people in leadership, wrestle with on different scales, but the fact that you are leading in so many different communities across so many cultural barriers and cultural borders, it just adds a whole nother layer to that-- of expectations and things that are set for you.

MELINDA

Well, I feel like I am always under a microscope. Everywhere I am, in every country, but it's worse in the United States. People are really quick to judge.

MAK

Well, especially when you're in an organization that is focused on serving other people because I, I mean I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I feel like from what I have witnessed, it is so easy for people to think that they are serving the right way and that anybody else that's serving in any other community or in any other capacity different from the ways that they are personally serving are wrong. So, I feel like that is such a common theme, especially when talking about organizations who are non-profits and things like that-- people who simply want to help other people. It's kind of sickening how quick those people are to judge, even more so than other people. I know what you're saying.

MELINDA

Yes, as sad as this is going to sound, the biggest part of my backlash comes from other Christians. When I first left to go on the mission field, I had people saying, "Why would you do that? Why would you leave your kids? Why would you go help orphans? Don't you know your own kids need your help? It was all well-meaning, Christian people that wanted to say things like that. And then when I came back and had this situation with Madeline, it was like they were quick to be like, "Well-- it's because you left." Do you know what I'm saying?

MAK

Yes, which is just so wrong. It's so disheartening, but, again, I think it's a common theme that people have to figure out how they react to backlash like that. So, on a completely different note, we talked some about service and how your position of leadership differs from other people's because you are a leader who serves. What would you say is your favorite way to serve others? Is there a particular thing that you enjoy doing? We talked about how you have a heart for education, but in what role of service do you like the most?

MELINDA

--most of all, I just like helping kids succeed and encouraging them. That's probably the most-- just encouraging them. Yes, I want them to get an education. Yes, I want to raise funds so they can go to school, but I'm doing all of that because I am really trying to get at the root of their hearts. Does that make sense?

MAK

That makes perfect sense.

MELINDA

I want them-- I help them get an education to succeed so they know that I care about them and that I think that they are worthy and have a future and that God has a plan for them, and I think they need that extra encouragement. Through that, I'm able to build relationships and build trust, and I am able to witness to them and share the Gospel with them. I am able to raise up leaders in other countries who are able to pour into people in their own countries.

MAK

Yes. That's so important. Coming off of that, in exploring what it's like to work in different cultures than the ones that you are most familiar with, what would be one or more intercultural barriers you have faced in working with love share

MELINDA

--spiritual warfare in a lot of the countries would probably be one of the biggest, and then also just having to learn the different cultures and understand them, and I'll give you an example of that. An example would be that I love yoga. I like to do yoga. I don't necessarily see anything wrong with yoga. I have a friend of mine who has a faith-based yoga class that I go to that I love, and it's all centered around prayer and scripture, and all that. However, coming off of that, at the church I work with in India, yoga is a big no-no. It is totally middle eastern religion, and it is Hindu, and the thought that a Christian would even do yoga is way out there. Does that make sense? I was there, and I was talking to Pastor Gerona's wife, and I was like, "Oh, I'd love to go to yoga at some point," and she went, "excuse me?" I was like, "Yoga! You know-- I'm in a yoga class," and she was like, "You're in a what?" And I was like, "We have a Christian yoga class," and she was like, "No, no, no." And she kind of grabbed my hand and leaned in and went, "Pastor Melinda, we do not do yoga. It is a middle eastern, religious associated. The Hindus do yoga. We do not do yoga. So, I'm like even though what I'm doing is definitely not Middle Eastern, does that make sense? They look at it as worshiping another god.

MAK

Sure, sure. And I know we-- when we went to Haiti, we talked a lot about spiritual warfare and encountering people of other religions and with different beliefs. Particularly, I think of Haiti because of the Voodoo that is so prevalent there, so I can see what you're saying.

MELINDA

That's true. Also, as soon as I hit Dubai or one of those Middle Eastern airports, I always carry scarves and a change of clothes with me because as soon as I hit that airport, I totally change. I'm in leggings and a really long tunic. I wrap my hair to not let any of my hair come out because I stand out like a sore thumb because everybody there has dark skin and dark hair, and most of them are covered from head-to-toe in black-- most of the women are. Some of them even have the little black things that go across their noses, but you can see their eyes. Some don't. Some do, so for me to show up in my Western apparel and my blond locks flowing is totally out of the ordinary, and even though-- I feel uncomfortable, and I need to change and hide everything.

MAK

How do you think that affects other people's perception of you and willingness to listen to what you have to say? Do you feel like people are still willing to listen to what you have to share? Are you respected more or less depending on where you come from?

MELINDA

Okay, that goes both ways. One, I think they are curious, so they're more willing to listen than they would be otherwise. So, lots of times I get an ear with people who are not necessarily there to begin with. Does that make sense... because of who I am and where I'm from, and quite frankly what I look like. It sounds terrible, but it's true. But I would also say that when I am in other places and do try to take on their cultural beliefs or ideas, I am a lot more accepted and want to hear me speak. When I am in India, they would much rather me be in leggings and a long tunic and a scarf or a sari. So, that is the preferred dress for me while I'm there, so I make sure that I pack things that are like that. Even though it's really, really hot, I wouldn't show up in my shorts and my tank top because I would not be allowed to speak anywhere.

MAK

Right, right. That's kind of a two-way street where it's kind of like, "I want you to respect me, but I also have to respect you and your cultural norms and beliefs in light of the position that I already hold.

MELINDA

Right.

MAK

Okay, we are changing gears with this next question. What or who has been your greatest influence? This can be in any area of life.

MELINDA

My greatest influence-- I'm probably going to have to say my mom because really, first of all, your mom has your back whether you succeed or whether you fail-- whether people are with you or people are against you, your mom's kind of always there for you regardless. So I would probably just say her and then also I watched her go through her career, and her goal was-- and this is a little two-fold-- I watched her. After she retired, she wanted to travel. So, after she accomplished all this stuff in life, she was going to retire, and then she was going to travel. So it turns out that her knees are so bad that she can't hardly travel-- I mean Haiti was the last trip she went on with me, and then when she came back, she said "I'm never going to travel again," because the travel was just too hard on her, and I hate that for her, but it was also motivation for me to go ahead and jump and go ahead and do what I feel God wants me to do while I'm still able to do it. Along with that, would be when Sharon Bryant died, she grew up the same age as me, she was completely healthy, then she was diagnosed with cancer, and then she died, and it just makes me think that we aren't promised tomorrow. We don't know what the next day holds, and if I'm not trying to push forward every little day, every day a little bit, to do something for someone or for Love Share or to help out the kids, I'm failing because I'm not promised a tomorrow.

MAK

Yeah, yeah. It's a perspective you hear people talk about, but then you don't really think about it until things happen-- like your parents DO age or you have a loved one pass away, and then it's kind of like, "Oh my goodness, this puts things in perspective." For sure.

MELINDA

Yeah, I mean-- yeah.

MAK

You can go ahead. If you have more to say, you can.

MELINDA

No, I was just going to say, I mean, it does put things in perspective, but also it makes you realize what's important in life and give you the opportunity to kind of reevaluate and think about what you really want out of life. And if what you really want out of life is things of the world, go for it, but that wasn't really ever what I was wanting.

MAK

Right. Right. I am very with you. This next question could be based on things of the world, but it's not quite. It's how do you measure success, and how do you learn from failure?

MELINDA

I measure success through the lives that are touched. I don't necessarily mean conversions for Christ or kids educated or anything like that. I really seriously mean the lives that have been touched in some way-- We sow seeds, and we grow seeds, and sometimes we get to see the fruit of the labor, but not always. I think that just being in a situation where I am able to do things for other people, just because they don't come to the front to make a decision for Christ, or just because they don't make a decision to change their ways doesn't mean that I haven't touched their lives that are going to change them later on. Does that answer your question?

MAK

It does. Yeah. Completely. Okay. What are two or three action steps that are essential to enable others to be successful?

MELINDA

Well, you have to act on the calling that God has on your life because if you ignore it, then you're going to be out of God's will, and my goal is always to be at the center of God's will, and I would think that would be anyone else who's a believer's goal. That would be one of them-- to be in the center of God's will, and the other one would have to be bet could go along with one and two don't listen to what other people have to say

MAK

You're so right. Okay-- What advice do you have, if any, for building relationships and trust in an organization? This can be personal or strictly business.

MELINDA
I think the most important thing is honesty. I think if you're honest and transparent with people, then they are going to understand and grasp your vision and want to help you. I will also say there's a caveat there because if you are honest, sometimes it's not what a lot of people want to hear-- so I guess know your audience. I would give that as advice, though I don't adhere to it. Does that make sense?

MAK

Yes.

MELINDA
I'm just honest and tell what's going on and what people want to know-- be that in Love Share or in life, personally. And sometimes people are not happy with things that I do, or people are not happy with things that are accomplished through Love Share. I'm going to give you the best example of all that I can give you. So a man wanted to send a group of students with me, but as soon as she realized that we go into churches, they quickly pulled out.

MAK

They realized that you what?

MELINDA
When they realized that we go to churches.

MAK

Oh, that you go to churches.

MELINDA

Right, we are an educational nonprofit, but I still go to churches-- it's just on overflow what I do... It's who I am-- So, it doesn't matter if I'm running an educational nonprofit or if I was a public-school teacher. I'm still a Christian, and I'm still going to be doing what I do with the belief systems that I have. Does that make sense?

MAK

Yeah, yeah

MELINDA

...What was he? I don't know if he was atheist or agnostic, but he was one of the two, so he didn't want to send students-- to another country and then me taking them to a church that I'm going to speak at that has Christian values and Christian principles. He was all about working with orphanages. He was all about education. He was all about learning another culture. He was all about kids working and helping and doing things, but then when he found out that those orphanages partner with churches and that I speak at the churches, then he was like, "Eh, I don't think so."

MAK

"Never mind."

MELINDA

And I really hate to lose that opportunity and all those students-- because I'm going to (say?) "Oh, we're going to speak at churches on this trip," you know?

MAK

Yeah, yeah.

MELINDA

No. It's just who I am.

MAK

Yeah, no. I think that's very valuable insight for sure. Okay-- We are going to go ahead and jump ahead to the last question, which is simply, "What do you want your legacy to be?"

MELINDA

That I have loved God and that I have loved people. That's it.

MAK

Hmm. Point blank.

MELINDA

I mean I think that that's what we're called to do, and I think that that's why God created us-- to love him and to love others, and I've really tried to do that my whole life, even though I'm sure that I've had shaky faith along the way, but my goal has been really to love God and to love others.

MAK

Which sounds simple but is so much more than it seems.

MELINDA
Oh, yeah.

MAK

Especially when you have--

MELINDA
It's a very simple way of serving, but it is very hard because I'll be honest and tell you that there are people in my life right now that I would like to not love in my life, but I'm called to love them, so instead of speaking ill about them or things of the flesh-- Right now, all the Lord has given me is "Be still, and I'll fight your battles."

MAK

MmmMELINDA

So-- it's not really tucking tail, but I feel like it is a little bit, and I'm one to defend myself, so for me to just be still is a hard thing for me, so yeah.

MAK

That's big--so, so big. Alright, well that is all that I have. Is there anything that you would like to share with this next generation of leaders or any last words that you would like to close with?

MELINDA

Yeah. Believe in yourself and the plans and calling on your life that God has on your life and just go for it. Don't let the things of this world and the messages of this world or the materialism or whatever suck you in. Just be true to whatever it is that the calling is that God has on your life, and He will take care of you. I know that that is very hard for a lot of people to understand or grasp. It's hard for me to grasp. There have been a number of times where my bank account is sitting on zero, but I am taken care of. I've never gone hungry, and I've always had clothes on my back.

MAK

That's awesome. That's so big. Well, Melinda, thank you so, so much for sharing your heart. You know that I admire you and that I think the world of you, and I'm so proud of the work you do and the way you enable other people to do the work that they're called to do as well, and I'm grateful to be one of those people.

MELINDA

Well, I'm still looking for interns, so uh-- if you want to go away, let me know.

MAK

Honestly, yup. Very soon. Very very soon.

MELINDA

I'm ready.

MAK

Me too.