Savannah McNabb: Thank you so much for doing this interview. It really means a
lot to me. Okay well I will just go ahead and get started again. So, what part of your personal biography or your background has led you to your position?Bruce Maytubby: Oh, let's see. Well I think that being Native American, it
creates an interest when you grow up with family and so forth, it creates an interest in Native American affairs and culture. I think that and as I grew up my college experiences, I had an interest in land related matters and that sort of thing. I think the combination of these things kind of led me to a career in the bureau.SM: I can really relate to that, as you already know who my father is, but we
also both grew up on a reservation. I've been looking into potential jobs with the BIA once I graduate.BM: Oh, great! Yeah, we'd love to have you.
SM: Thank you. So, the next question is what culture identities or experiences
have been the most salient for you?BM: Well I think that just my heritage, I'm Chickasaw, and while I didn't grow
up in Oklahoma, I've spent probably over 18 years living in Oklahoma. I've also worked on reservations in Idaho, Utah, and Wyoming. I think those experiences really drive home the need to serve Indian people and to provide the best kind of service we can provide. For me being a senior manager for the bureau, it really brings it home more.SM: Do you have a specific experience that you would say has shaped you the most
as a leader?BM: I think just working on reservations is probably the experience that has
impacted me the most. Being in a service role to the clients that I met with day-in and day-out and to live with them, to see what they see, to experience a lot of the things they do and see it first hand, I think that's probably the most influential experiences that I've had spending a little of 8 years on reservations.SM: Oh, wow! Do you think that you were called into leadership or did you have
to seek it out?BM: I think it was just an outgrowth of providing services to Native Americans.
When you are working with the Bureau of Indian Affairs, part of that service organization, whether you are buying pens and paper for the office or you are meeting with clients day-in and day-out, it's all part of a service we are providing for Native Americans. I think for me it's an issue of having gone out and worked on reservations and seeing all the kinds of things I could do for them there was the need to do more. Being a supervisor rising up in the organization gives you an opportunity to do more. Part of supervising folks and managing organizations was that you could do more to shape the organization to provide those services you saw that they needed.SM: Are there any certain challenges or obstacles that you have faced in your time?
BM: Yeah, in every job that you work in the Bureau of Indian Affairs, if you
think that you aren't going to face an obstacle then you picked the wrong work. It's a challenge working on reservations, working with difficult people, the challenges are both within and without of your organization. You've got challenges with the public, with your clients, your employees, it's just every aspect of the job.SM: What would you say that leadership means to you?
BM: I think it's all about building positive relationships and relationship that
lead to increasing your ability to provide those services that the tribe needs. It's about building those relationships with your employees and gaining their trusts to support you. It's going out of the organization, reaching out to our supervisors that are in Washington, D.C. and it's working with them to gain their confidence that you'll do good things for the people you're serving. That's what I think leadership is all about, it's about being able to be in a position of trust and carrying out the mission that you've been charged with doing.SM: [coughs] Excuse me, I have a little bit of a cough. So, could you give me an
example of how you've worked towards gaining trust in your organization? Or building trust in relationships?BM: Yeah, I think part of it is communication. I think for me being the leader
of an organization, I have to be a good communicator. I have to be a good communicator to my employees. I need to be able to communicate what my position is, what my vision is for the organization. I need to be able to put it into terms that they can easily understand and not have to sit there and say "Well what did he say? What did he mean?" It has to be self-evident what I'm trying to do and how I'm trying to do it. If I can make it that way, I hope I can get them from my end to work with me to make the kind of changes or help make the set accomplishments and complete them. It's also being a good communicator to the people that we serve. We do this by understanding what their concerns are, what they value, what their goals and objectives are, and to see how my organization can help them achieve that.SM: How would you characterize your leadership style?
BM: I'm kind of a hybrid. I don't know how much of leadership styles you've
looked at, but I'm probably 50% invested in strategic leadership style. I'm focused on what I need to accomplish, what I need to get there resource wise. 30% percent is coaching, 30% of my time is spent coaching the managers that work for me. I ensure that they know what I need to have done and that they are working with their employees and making them better employees. 20% percent is probably democratic, it's kind of a thing where you don't want to be like the "my way or the highway" kind of guy. That's not my style, I like input and to encourage input. I will tell everybody upfront that I might not do what everybody wants me to do, but I sure want to hear what you'd like to see me do so that I can weigh that out against our mission and see if it's doable.SM: That's a very good hybrid. What would you say your professional strengths are?
BM: I think I am a very good planner. When I'm charged with things to do, I
start thinking about what needs to be done and going through a checklist. Do I have the resources? Do I have the funds? Do I have the personnel? Do I have a plan? I go through a strategic planning process to meet whatever goal that needs to be done. That's probably one of my strengths. You're probably going to want to know what my limitations are, too. First of all, I think as a manager, we have to acknowledge that we do have weaknesses. Too often, I see managers that think they don't have any weaknesses. That therein is a weakness. I think everybody needs to know their limitations. For me, I think it's that at times I will trust subordinates or employees with plans without having to look over their shoulder. Sometimes that's a mistake, but I think at the end of the day you have to empower people and sometimes its good and sometimes its not so good. Let's see what else? There's one on the tip of my tongue, but I can't think of it.SM: Okay we'll just move on to the next question and if you remember it at any
point you can just state it. The next question is what or who has been your greatest influence?BM: Yes, I've had three mentors in my career. One was the first boss that I've
ever had and the other two were the people I worked with at the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Each of those three people were very influential on me. Their professionalism and their commitment to their jobs, to a person outside looking at them and what they were doing and how was intimidating. They were very knowledgeable and extremely capable individuals committed. They took the time to work with me and answer questions to help me better my career.SM: You mentioned earlier that one of your weaknesses is trusting subordinates
and I think that relates to delegating. So, how do you feel about delegating? Is it important to delegate? When and how should you delegate?BM: I think it's critical, I think you have to empower others. If you don't and
seek to micromanage by doing things yourself, you won't get as much done as if you would if you empowered employees. I think the only thing over the years that has come home to me is that as you empower employees, you've got to keep coming back and communicate to get feedback from them. There is a monitoring process you have to do to ensure they are on target, that they are carrying out exactly the directions that you provided. That's kind of the lesson you learn there, that you get burnt a couple times by employees going off the rails. What you learn from that is hey I need to engage with that person to ensure they're on track, that they're doing what I expect them to do. That's the corrective measure I've put in place for the weakness that I have.SM: How do you measure success ?
BM: I am working with probably four different generations of employees. The
newer employees are very different from the employees my age. It's definitely a whole different kind of working relationship.SM: Do you find it harder to work with the younger generation of employees?
BM: I don't think it's harder, I think it's different with what their
expectations are. That's part of what you need to be cognitive of, that there are differences, but that doesn't make it bad. It just means that as a manager you need to stretch the manner in which you work with those individuals. You need to stretch your ability as a manager because you need to see outside of your own age group. I think one of the universal rules is short- and long-term goal setting. For me, what works well with all the generations is sitting down with the staff and communicate short-term goals that you'd like to see in a week. You then revisit those goals and see if you're hitting them. Some folks respond well to having a long-term goal and with their skill level, maybe they don't need that weekly goal or meeting to ensure they're on track. I think with that approach is that you go with that initial approach and see what works with given individuals. You can customize that to employees.SM: So, would you say that is a trial and error process? You just have to see
what works?BM: I think that's part of it. I think with employees today that managers have
to look at those employees and see what they do best and the manner that those employees operate best in. If the manner in which they operate is within the parameter of employment and within HR parameters, then that's a good thing. Frankly, I can tell you that we come across employees that just can't be bound by rules. That's unfortunate, but in the government, there are rules. So, if you are okay with the parameters that are within federal government employment then you're successful. If you aren't liking the parameters, then private industry is probably a better fit.SM: When you're hiring, and since you work for the Bureau of Indian Affairs, is
there a preference for Native Americans when you are hiring?BM: Yes, there is a federal statute that gives preference to hiring Native Americans.
SM: Okay, how have you learned from your failures?
BM: The first order of business is you don't take it personally because if you
do, then you'll be afraid to fail again. Sometimes failure can define how you can operate and the parameters in which to operate. I know if I go this far I'm going to fail or somebody isn't going to allow me to do that, you know if you push the envelope too much and you get smacked on the head and told not to do that, then you don't take it personally and say "okay I don't go this far next time." I think it's being aware of the situations in which you have failed and what the conditions were that caused you to fail. You revaluate how you're going to move forward from there. I think we all fail and what I tell my managers is that if you are afraid of doing things and of bringing new things to the table because you're afraid of failure, then you're failing at that. You can't be afraid of it, but you got to learn from it.SM: Would you say that failure is necessary to get to success?
BM: I don't know how it can't be. Everyone fails. Nobody is perfect. Unless
you're pushing the envelope to give the best possible services you can, you are always going to be pushing the regulations to do things that are on the edge of failing. As you fail, you learn from that and don't do the same thing again. You'll learn skills to keep yourself from getting there. I will sit and do safety checks; I'll sit with a close peer and talk to them about what I am doing and get his advice. I'll have checks and balances in place to keep me from getting there again.SM: What are two or three action steps you believe to be essential to enabling
others to be successful?BM: I don't think that anybody in this Bureau of Indian Affairs gets anywhere
unless they are a good communicator. I think that everybody needs to self-evaluate their strengths and weaknesses and have a pretty good handle on them. For me and the weaknesses I have, there will be areas that I am not knowledgeable about or have limited experience in. I will seek to get subordinates who know the area inside and out, I will bring them on board to advise me. While I don't have the strength that they do to understand a given program or to operate, I've got them to take care of it.SM: The first thing you said was that communication is key, so how would you
define a good communicator?BM: I think a good communicator knows what they are going to say before they
open their mouth. As they begin to speak, they know what they are going to speak about. They know where they are going with the conversation and what they are going to accomplish, then they shut up. They then listen to what people have to say about what they have said.SM: That's good advice. Do you have any other advice for building relationships,
but in a professional setting? Like among your employees?BM: I think that building relationships is a big part of any business, whether
within or without of the government. I think building relationships is critical because the more positive relationships you have, the more opportunities you have to accomplish the goals and missions you are trying to do. Part of that is listening to what other people have to say and not doing all the talking. You have to observe their position on things and seeing how they coincide with your own position. If they don't, it's good you have that understanding before you start sitting down and start talking about a business proposition or something of that nature if you know they are negative on certain aspects. You want to steer clear of the given areas and focus on the positive. I think that relationship building is that you've got to be a good listener.SM: What would you like your legacy to be?
BM: Well, I think my legacy is already there. I have been a part of the software
design to systems that operate in the bureau, one of which is used to disperse over a billion dollars, and I was the design leader for that software. I participated in completing the software that dispersed over a billion dollars is I think a legacy.SM: That is a legacy.
BM: I think the other one is that I worked on the software requirements and
developments on myself and that just became a bureau wide system this year. All the regional offices in the bureau will be mandated to use going forward.SM: Well, that's awesome! Congratulations!
BM: Well, thanks! It's things that you work hard to provide services for the
clients that we have and when we see opportunities to participate in projects like that and you have something to add, it's just a good feeling to be able to do that. It's less about ego and more about what can you do to help the Native Americans we're charged with providing assistance to. While, I've done some of those things, the things that were most satisfying was working on reservations and people coming in everyday to meet with you that had needs. Being able with the stroke of a pen to provide a need for them that they had was probably the most satisfying part of the job.SM: That is astounding! Do you have any advice for minorities in the workplace?
BM: Since I've been in the workplace here, this is the first job I've had where
it was less than 80% Native American employees. So, I've always been in a workplace where it was 80% to 95% Native American. This is one of the two places I've worked where it's been less than that percentage of folks working that are non-native. Whether you are Native or non-Native, to me as a manager and a supervisor, we're all part of a bigger picture and that is that we're service providers. To me, I could care less about if you're a Native or non-Native, what I do care about is the commitment to provide service to the folks that need it and look to us to provide those kinds of services. If that's your calling, then hey you're my best friend today.SM: That's very unbiased and a good look on things. Okay, I don't have any more
questions, is there anything else you would like to talk about?BM: No, I think that's it. I would invite you to keep USA jobs in mind. My first
government position was working for the National Parks Service as a park technician making, I hate to tell you this, I was probably making about $3.75 an hour way back when.SM: You've come a long way.
BM: [laughs] Yeah, it's gotten a little better since then with inflation. I have
served at the lowest level with the Bureau of Indian Affairs, I was a map technician grade four. I worked for the government as a summer job my junior year of college and senior year after I graduated, I got a summer job with the Bureau of Indian Affairs. While the entry level jobs weren't all that interesting to me, I persisted in carrying out the menial jobs, checking lines on a map to make sure they well I wouldn't say accurate, but I was checking to road atlas maps to make sure all the roads were there. It may seem, well no it was a bummer of a job, but I did that for a summer, then I got hired on a land-related job and that's my interest in Native Americans. I was a geology major and a history minor and those combined with my Native American heritage gained my interest in trust side trust programs that the bureau carries out. I think I found my calling when I got my first job to work with Native American lands.SM: Do you think you are the leader you are today because of these smaller jobs?
Did these jobs help you get to where you are ?BM: Well, I don't want to work in them anymore. It's not always easy to break
into the government service and they were a way to break in. I was in a temporary position for over five years and when you're in a temporary position you don't get health benefits or anything like that. Once I got in the land-related programs that the Bureau does, I really thought that was a calling for me. I got interested and wanted to know more and took some courses from University of Maryland. I really got hooked at that point.SM: I'm happy you found your calling.
BM: Well, thank you.
SM: Thank you for your time today, I hope your day goes well! I believe that's
it. Thank you!BM: I would encourage you to keep USA jobs website handy, look at the kinds of
jobs that are opening up. On a personal side, I have two kids. One is working with the Bureau of Indian Affairs in Vancouver, Washington, and the other, my daughter, who graduated three or four years ago, is working in Nashville here at the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Knowing your Dad and what a great employee he is, don't be tied down to locations. You can get a lot of good experiences in the different locations the Bureau has jobs advertised in.SM: Thank you for the advice, I'll definitely keep it in mind. Thank you for
your time.BM: Sure, you take care!
SM: Goodbye.
