Interview with Elizabeth Langgle-Martin, November 14, 2019

Claire Miller: Alright, I am here with Elizabeth Langgle-Martin, the Community Engagement Manager for the Nashville Food Project. My name is Claire Miller and we will be doing an interview about her leadership role. We will start off with your first question. What part of your personal biography or background lead you to this position?

Elizabeth Langgle-Martin: I have a masters in social work. I got my undergrad and graduate degree at Florida State University. Traditionally, I have worked in different types of poverty and housing related justice work. I have been a mental health case manager. I have been an outreach worker for a number of years working with folks on the street and working with folks to get them into housing and going through that process with them. I mentioned that all of our meals are served in partnership with other nonprofits. One of the non-profits that I used to work for is a partner of the Nashville Food Project. I was very interested in food justice and I was looking for a change of pace. I needed a rest from the type of work that I was doing. Some things were changing in our family and I had really seen the impacts of emergency shelters and being able to serve a really high-quality fresh meals from the food project to the folks that were staying with me overnight. Just seeing their excitement around that and the dignity that was brought with really high-quality meals just got me excited. I ended up connecting with the food project when it was time for me to make a change, and ended up here.

CM: Very cool! What cultural identities or experiences are most important or salient for you?

ELM: I am white, I think that that actually does play a huge role because I have to be aware of the damage that has been done from my ancestors. The way that nonprofit work is kind of based in colonialism and the charity mind-set. I think I constantly am trying to be reading and being aware and doing anti-racist work. And being aware of the way that my privilege can affect those around me, even with the best of intentions. And how that if I am doing work-- if I am not informed by the people I am serving and doing it alongside the people I am serving, then it can be more harmful than it is helpful.

CM: Okay! What cultural identities are the people that you are serving mainly?

ELM: I mean, a vast number. Right now, I don't currently do direct service because obviously I represent the food project and do a lot of work to talk about our mission and to share with groups that are interested in our work. I work a lot with volunteers. I work a lot with some of the things that we will be doing coming up. They are really food justice events and education events and then also listening sessions for folks who are affected by our programs as we are developing programs, making new decisions they're informed by that. But the people we serve are completely diverse in the sense that we have all different ethnicities and ages. A lot of the people we serve are children, older adults, but we are really partnering with the nonprofit not with the meal guests directly.

CM: What experiences do you think have shaped you the most as a leader?

ELM: Probably just having experiences of learning of people in poverty and just journing with people who have experienced really extreme injustices or barriers and just them having grace with me as I learn, and I discover. Just taking a posture of listening and just really learning from the resilience and the character that is displayed there.

CM: Yes, absolutely. Were you called into leadership or did you seek it out because you felt it was your calling and it held conviction?

ELM: Probably a mix of both. There have definitely been times when I have sought out a position of leadership but I think that primarily-- it kind of can be a natural step when you are passionate about what you do and work really hard to be informed and to get better and to constantly hone your skills and constantly educate yourself. I think that that can lead to positions of leadership if you're passionate about helping, if you're passionate about connecting people in that way and bringing other folks with you.

CM: How did your passion for food justice foster itself, instead of a different type of injustice in Nashville?

ELM: Yes! I think that any-- I have worked in multiple different broken systems whether that is housing, homelessness, mental health, and all of these things are affected. Food reaches into all of these things. Any time you see a vulnerable population or any time you see a marginal population, food plays a role in that. Food has this capacity to be this weapon that can be used if you think about even the kind of rhetoric you hear around food stamps. Everyone has an opinion about people who are on food stamps. There is this vicious, horrible rhetoric. It can be used as a weapon to alienate and further marginalize people and food can be used in a way to heal in rich conversations. There is this quote that, "Whoever you eat with you humanize". There is this idea of sitting down and having a meal with people you might not necessarily agree with or understand, bringing folks a little closer together. I think that food is a reflection of a lot of our cultural identities too. Saying, this is a kind of meal that you grew up with. That was a part of your family and an important part of your story. It might be very different from what I grew up with. Learning the background of how food has been important in each of our lives and a little bit more about the person.

CM: Absolutely. That is very cool! How have you learned from different obstacles and challenges you have faced as someone in leadership? Either difficult things that you have had to overcome with your organization or just different things.

ELM: Yes, I mean I think a lot of times the biggest thing is the internal work that has to be done to be effective in any capacity of justice related work. If you're passionate about seeing justice in your community, you first have to do a lot of internal work to break down the biases the prejudice, the different things that have inherently become a part of us without us even realizing it. And part of being an effective leader, being effective in this field, is constantly doing internal work and moving myself forward in that way. Having a lot of humility and looking for new voices and teachers and people to learn from when there are experiences I don't understand or things that I don't know about. Because there is-- it is impossible to know everything. It is impossible to understand and consider every point of view but it's not impossible to gather different voices to make sure that things are all a part of the conversation. My biggest thing is constantly learning how to gather more voices to be a part of the conversation.

CM: Yes, absolutely. I am going to jump down because it kind of relates. Do you think it is important to delegate? And if yes, why?

ELM: I don't know if I would use the term delegate because delegate would suggest that I am up here and I am handing down a task. I would think less delegating and more collaborating. I think it's important to collaborate. I think that it is important to recognize the wisdom of others that have had experiences different than myself and have a perspective different than myself and see what we can bring to the table. Sometimes that does look like delegation but sometimes it's less of handing down of a task and more of how can we use these unique characteristics we have together to do whatever we are working towards in the best possible way.

CM: Yes! Play to everyone's strengths. How would you define leadership and what does it mean to you?

ELM: I think for me, when I have had leaders in my life who are very impactful. Because I learn from a lot of specific leaders, currently our CEO here Talu, is in a position of listening and humility. This confidence in who you are, what you're called to do, what you believe you're good at, what your skills are. Also, an acknowledgement of the things that you don't feel as strong in. That level of vulnerability can be really hard in leaders that might feel like they need to have it all together. But there is this authenticity and level of vulnerability that is still-- have you read the book dare to lead by Renee Brown?

CM: Yes!

ELM: Yes, she talks about healthy vulnerability. It's not being uncertain and being wishy-washy and dragging everyone along with you, but it is being vulnerable with things you might be uncertain with or not know. I have seen this in the leaders that I have looked up to the most. It is something I am kind of growing into. A leader not only-- I am trying to think of a condensed way to convey my point. I think a leader helps all the folks around them feel validated and feels like each person's contributions and each person's voice is part of the work. And I think that when I have seen good leadership, they are able to make me feel just as important as they are. Does that make sense?

CM: Not the whole delegating thing but collaborating thing.

ELM: Yes! I might not be CEO but Talu still acknowledges and makes me feel like my contributions are equally valid, just in a different way. And seeing people as pieces of the puzzle instead of places in a hierarchy. Several leaders that I have been with and been really impressed by and have really helped me grow, I have felt more of a piece of a puzzle instead of a cog, if that makes sense.

CM: Yes! That is a really cool way of looking at it because I think our society doesn't operate that way

ELM: I think in most organizations there has to be some form of hierarchy for decision making and things like that, but the idea that just because a position is higher on the hierarchy doesn't mean they are bringing more important things, they are just bringing different elements. That is kind of something I have learned from leaders that have been really great.

CM: Yes, absolutely. What is one characteristic you believe every leader should possess?

ELM: Probably that posture of listening. I think if you lose the ability to listen, you lose the ability to effectively lead.

CM: Listening to those you are also leading with or constituents?

ELM: Kind of both. Listening to folks that, let's say for us, listening to meal guests (the people that are actually eating our food) listening to our nonprofit partners. Listening to other community leaders who know more about us in other aspects. We may know a lot about food but listening to people who know more about housing or barriers for communities of color or immigrant rights. Basically, none of these things exist in asylo, being able to constantly looking for wisdom outside of what you already know.

CM: Looking more specifically at leadership development inside of you, how would you characterize your leadership style? It's a hard question!

ELM: Do I have multiple choice? [laughing]

CM: We have talked a lot about servant leaders who lead by example and lead not in a competitive way. Then there are the hierarchical ones--

ELM: Yes. Probably closer to servant leader. I like positions where I am challenged and that they give me a project or a goal that I find challenging or exciting and that I am passionate about. And sometimes that leads me to positions of leadership but there have also been times that there have been leadership positions available, but it is not compatible with my strengths. I am not going to move into that to move forward quote on quote. I hope-- my goal is to be more of a servant leader. To lead by example and also, to empower the people around me, support the people around me, in the work that they are called to do or the work that they feel best suited for.

CM: Yes, very cool! Also, more personally, what are your professional strengths and weaknesses? If you had to name two of each.

ELM: Yes! I think I tend to be strong communicating with people. And especially with the folks that I am close with and I have relationships with. I am able to have hard conversations and communicate ideas pretty clearly. I try, I feel like, for the most part... I am able to take bigger concepts or ideas and break them into smaller manageable ways we can really talk through those. I think one of my struggles is I can get overwhelmed when a lot of different moving pieces are going on and that sometimes I struggle with effectiveness of my systems. Sometimes I think I could be more effective and organized in my day to day tasks and things like that. Not exactly time management, but kind of along that line. There might be a more effective way or a more time efficient way to do some of the work that I do. And those are things that I am constantly learning and trying to perfect.

CM: Do you think you are more of a big picture person or the day to day, step by step process?

ELM: Probably day to day.

CM: Okay! Leaders help to turn ideas into action, and empower others, how do you turn ideas into action?

ELM: One of the things I really learned from one of my co-workers here is that every time we have a meeting and we're talking about this bigger idea or this bigger project coming up or bigger event, every time before we leave the room, she is like, "What are our action steps? What are the next things we need to do? We walk out of this room what do you do, what am I doing, what are you responsible for?" And that's been something I have learned from one of my coworkers here and that's something I am now implementing. When we are talking about a big idea, before I leave that room or before I am done writing down my notes, I want to know what my next step is to move me toward that. And what's my piece, what can I bring, what is my tangible next steps to move towards my goal. I think that is something that I have really learned.

CM: Yes! Absolutely. What are the most important decisions that you have to make in your role in this organization?

ELM: One of the things: Right now, I do a lot of volunteer coordination. I do actually all of our volunteer coordination, or the majority of it actually, not all of it. We're working with over 388 volunteers each month, which is a lot of people. And balancing the needs and wants of our volunteers. And making sure we are extending an invitation for people to come alongside us in our work with also, balancing the needs of the program and the staff. We want to bring in folks alongside us to work but we are also responsible for a certain amount of meals going out. It is like, "How do you balance all of those things when they don't always go neatly together?" Kind of balancing the needs and the wants and the frustrations of different groups of people, has been a huge decision-making process and required a lot of communication and learning. And then another thing is one of the roles that I am going to be moving or going to be doing some work. I think in the new year, it is helping or supporting our team as we continue to move forward in our equity and inclusion goals. As a team, we have been doing a lot of anti-racist work. We have been looking a lot about how equitable certain practices are, the inclusiveness of our volunteer opportunities, different things like that. And moving forward I will be helping support in a bigger way, some of those things. I think there will be a lot of important decisions that I am learning how to navigate in the coming months.

CM: Going back to volunteers, do you have volunteers here every day helping with--

ELM: Here at headquarters, we have volunteers here Monday through Saturday, with the exception of Friday. Well no, there is always different-- there are different types of volunteers. Here we have some type of volunteer Monday through Saturday. At St. Luke's, we have volunteers Monday through Friday and at our gardens, it is a little more sporadic and seasonal. There are usually a couple garden opportunities throughout the weeks.

CM: Could this nonprofit function without volunteers?

ELM: Oh no, not at all. Right now, for this year, our volunteers have contributed over 14,000 volunteer hours. A lot of our work (being able to output as many meals as we do, being able to maintain as many garden sites as we do) wouldn't be possible without volunteer support.

CM: Okay, yes! That is super cool. How do you personally measure success? And then I'll ask the other question later.

ELM: Yes, I think success, I feel like, that could mean a lot of different things. Success can look a lot of different ways, but I think if health of relationships-- if we are meeting all of our quote on quote goals with the number of meals we are putting out and the number of volunteers that we are engaging, but our relationships with those volunteers and nonprofits are not good and the different relationships on staff are not good, if we don't feel healthy individually, then we are not really succeeding. I think my view of success, would be how we are moving toward our bigger mission, while still maintaining health in community in our current spot. Individually as an organization, with each other, with volunteers, and with other non-profits as well.

CM: Then how do you both individually and as an organization learn from failure?

ELM: Oh, yes. We do something called the circle process. It is like a style of-- there is actually something in Nashville called the circle center and they have been doing-- leading some staff meetings with us. It is a form of communication and it is really just sitting in a circle and you pass around a speaking, a speaking piece, and every person has the opportunity, several opportunities, to speak what they are feeling. And there have been a couple times when things haven't-- we have hit a bump in the road or there has been some frustration or there is something that needs to be talked through. And by using that process and by coming together and sitting, looking at each other in a vulnerable way and using some tools that we have been taught to mediate, that bump or that barrier has been very helpful in learning from failure. Because I might go into circle and have a really strong opinion of what I think is right. Like: this is the question, this is the conflict. This is how I feel about it but after listening to all of these folks that I love and that I respect express their opinions and their perspectives, by the end I might feel very differently. I might still think-- I still feel the way that I did when I came but I am now understanding and seeing where these folks are coming from. And where can we meet and have all of these needs met. And I think when we come together collaboratively, to vulnerabley and genuinely discuss conflict or barriers with the goal of leaving each feeling like we've been heard and like our contributions are meaningful, and the solution of that problem, I think, that is really valuable and a way to learn from failure.

CM: Yes! You keep coming back to the word vulnerability which I find interesting. For leaders here, do you think that it is important for leaders to show when they don't know how to do something or do you think, in order for them to be a powerful leader they need to figure that out on their own, or how do you think a leader not having the knowledge plays into--

ELM: I think that the leaders here are very confident. They are confident in what they know, they are confident-- I talked about doing a lot of internal work. We have done things like strengths finder and help identify what we are strong in and celebrate those things, but we are also pretty honest about the areas that we need additional input or support on. There will be times that someone is like, "Hey this is my role, I have been given the responsibility to make this decision, and this is the decision that I am thinking." And then there will also be times where that person has a decision to make but I don't feel like I have all the skills or information.

CM: Your views of leadership are very different than a lot of power-hungry people in our world which is super cool. Who would you say has been one of your greatest influences?

ELM: This is kind of different but honestly, the folks I talked to who were without housing. I have a number of friends, that I helped move, that I helped and worked with and journeyed with and moved into housing with. One of my friend's name is Ron. I moved him. I helped him move into his apartment a few years ago and he is still there. And he had many different barriers to housing; he was a veteran, he had a lot of mental health struggles, he had a history of a substance abuse disorder, and his just persistence and the resilience and the things that I saw him express everyday were constantly inspiring. I remember there was a time that he was living behind a church in downtown Nashville while they were still working on his housing and he slept outside but still had a handwritten card for me on my birthday. And just the level of intention when we see people in really vulnerable situations. We assume it is because they are lacking in some way, but I think the folks that I have seen in those situations have more strength and resilience and have to navigate more hard decisions and more hard choices every single day. And I love to sit and talk with the folks that I have worked with, and see what I can take away from that, what can they teach me about how to operate in the world, and how to push forward when things are hard. Yes, it is kind of a--

CM: Yes, that is really cool! Since you partner with other nonprofits, do you get to interact with the people that those nonprofits are serving?

ELM: Sometimes, not always. It kind of just depends. And sometimes, when we say it that way it kind of makes it sound like they are very different people from me, and they are not. I might not interact with them while they are eating their meal but they might be people that I don't know. You know how you start a sentence and it doesn't come out right? [laughing] We believe, at the food project, how everyone has the potential to be both guest and host. It is possible that in some ways they are a meal guest and they are eating the food that we cook, and eating a meal in one setting, but they might be a host in another setting. A) I don't even know who all of our meal guests are. There is no sign that people walk about with saying that people received a meal from us. It's possible that I interact everyday in a lot of different ways but I don't on an official capacity sit down with meal guests as they are eating. But then a lot of friendships that I gathered through my work previously, I still maintain.

CM: Very cool. Jumping down, what are two or three action steps you believe to enable others to be successful?

ELM: So, kind of back to, you kept saying vulnerability, when we are vulnerable, genuinely vulnerable with other people, it gives them permission to also, be vulnerable and I think if I am vulnerable about the things that I don't know, about the things I need support in, and the things that I think others have more wisdom than that kind of sets the tone for how other people feel that they are allowed to interact with me, that they are allowed to be honest about things that they don't know, they are allowed to be honest if they think that I might know something that they don't. I think when you exist in vulnerable and authentic ways, it encourages the people around you to do that as well. And I think part of enabling others to be successful is just asking them what they need. It is saying, "Hey, I want to see you succeed in this thing that you are working towards, but are there any ways that I can support you to ensure that you get there?" And I think that a lot of people have not been asked this before, like, "What do I need?" And that helps them stop and think, "Do I need someone's time? Do I need someone's attention? Do I need someone's help reading over this email before I send them? Do I need someone's help thinking through this problem? Do I need someone to just show up and help them load meals?". It can look a lot of different ways. But, just asking folks, "What do you need to be successful and how can I support you in that?"

CM: Did you experience someone asking you that?

ELM: Oh yes, definitely. I think a lot of the folks I work alongside here are really good at that. They will say things like-- we'll be talking about a plan and they will be like, "Okay, what do you need from me?" And that is kind of the culture that has been created here. This might be your project quote on quote but it's part of our bigger mission. We're all responsible to see that succeed. I am just as responsible to support you, to see you succeed, as you are for that task or whatever it is.

CM: Yes, very cool. What advice would you give to someone going into a leadership position for the first time or a college student rising into leadership?

ELM: Yes, a couple different things. The first thing I already hit on. To just take a posture of learning. I think that we're all young and excited to get out and do things, which is incredible and infectious and wonderful, and that energy is needed in our world. Also, just recognize there is a lot of wisdom to be gained. And recognize that you can save a lot of heartache if you listen to the things that have already been tried and has already been done and you can learn from other people's failures and successes and then also-- [repeats question to self]. I just had another idea and it just flew out of my head.

CM: That's okay!

ELM: I am going to come back to that one when I think of it.

CM: Sounds good!

ELM: My first is, my other one, is still one I feel strongly about entering, even if you-- oh! I remember the other one! One of the things I was taught in school, which I have always taken with me as one of my social teachers said, "Everyone is the expert of their own experience,". I might have a lot of education around homelessness and housing but only the person that I talk to on the street is the expert on their own life and their own experience. And another thing one of my teachers said that I have always taken with me is if the problem was simple that that person would have already fixed it themselves. If you go in and assume a problem is easily fixable, if you assume that-- to just have value, to just treat people in that situation with value, because there are still a lot of capable people struggling with problems. And yes, just knowing that that person is an expert at their own experience, if the problem was simple, they would have fixed it themselves. Really it would be going back to "How can I support you to be successful" Rather than "This is what I am going to come in and do". And I think that comes from a place of humility and vulnerability and recognizing that just because you are in leadership doesn't mean your role is more important than those around you.

CM: Yes, absolutely. You talked about educating yourself, how do you continually educate yourself?

ELM: We do a lot of; well I guess two parts. We do a lot of staff for continuing education, if there is a topic we want to know about we'll bring in a speaker from another nonprofit. We'll bring in a community member who knows a lot about something or if one of our team members does, they might present on it. We practice different things. We'll do different exercises and put concepts into practice and then I think one of the things that I love about the culture here is that we are constantly circulating resources, if I read a really-- recently I read a really cool article about the way white women perpetuate white supremacy unintentionality in the nonprofit sector. And we are obviously a lot of white women here and we all want to work toward being anti-racist and a just system but there are some inherent things that we need to recognize as problematic. I shared that article with everyone else, and a couple people reached out and said, "I would love to talk about this". And having this culture of learning, where sharing resources is respected, and people are excited about that, has really helped my personal growth. I am able to share and talk about things that I find but then other people share resources with me that I might have no idea that existed.

CM: Within this organization, what advice do you have for building trust and relationships? And what has worked for you guys?

ELM: I think lots of opportunities to do internal work together. Learning specific tools for how we handle conflict and hard conversations. Bringing in a specific-- we learned the circle training, when something happens, instead of trying to figure out how are we going to have this conversation, we already have a tool in place to say, "Okay, we are all already familiar with this style of conversation. This is how we are going to have this conversation." Bringing in specific tools to have hard conversations. And one of our policies is anyone can call a circle. If anyone has something that they are really struggling with, that they feel like they need a full staff conversation about, anyone can bring that to our leadership and say, "I'd like to have a circle with our team about this". That doesn't matter if it's the CEO or if it's a contract position, whoever that is, has the ability to do that.

CM: What do you think is the biggest barrier for the Nashville Food Project currently?

ELM: As an organization? As our Mission? Internally or externally? What are you thinking?

CM: Probably internally.

ELM: Yes, I think internally it is just there is a lot of need in our community for high quality food for different types of programming. Usually other types of nonprofits have limited resources. Usually the food that is available is pretty cheap and processed and things like that. There are a lot of organizations who are reaching out and looking for that kind of support. It is like, "How do we grow and meet the needs of our community while still maintaining our culture and the health of our internal health". I think that is something we are constantly learning.

CM: Then, if you have to say externally, what would be the biggest barrier?

ELM: I mean probably along the same lines. That success, the way that success is measured is different in different capacities, and what might look like success from the outside, might look like growing constantly and always putting out more meals, adding new programs. But if that doesn't let us form deep relationships and have a more systemic impact, then that might not be actual success. There is success that funders think of as a success. There is success that our nonprofit partners think of as success. Kind of navigating the different successes interpreted.

CM: What is your personal definition of success?

ELM: Our goal and our mission is working toward community food security. I think my ideal goal, my ideal world would be where high-quality nutritious food is seen as a right instead of a privilege. When we are bringing in high quality food to these spaces that have normally gotten the bottom of the barrel resources that rely on donations because sometimes when you are an organization that relies completely on donations, you kind of have to deal with what you are given. But if you bring in high quality food to those spaces, and say, "No this is the type of food and this is the quality that you deserve, and you are worth." That is what I want to see for our community. I don't want high quality nutritious food to only be available to people with deep pockets, who can eat at organic restaurants. I also want the person who is struggling to pay their bills to still be able to provide their child with a high-quality meal. That is my idea of success in our community: is seeing high quality food being treated more like a right and a necessity rather than a privilege, if you are quote on quote good enough or successful enough.

CM: Right. How did you choose the community of Nashville to provide high quality food and try to foster that community of making it important?

ELM: Just because I live here! And the sense that like my family lives in this community. This is where we are planted. This is where we live. And we have a responsibility. As folks who live in Nashville, we have a responsibility to move our city into a more just place. If I lived somewhere else, I would hope I would be working toward that somewhere else too.

CM: You feel as though that is what you have been called to do?

ELM: I don't know. I think through different seasons. I have a real-- I am incredibly passionate about affordable housing and homelessness and other different related justice issues. I don't know that I will always be in food justice work, but I think that it has been a huge learning, it is a huge learning opportunity, and I've really loved the way that it has helped support all different kinds of poverty work throughout the community.

CM: Finally, what do your legacy to be?

ELM: Oh gosh!

CM: It is a big one!

ELM: I can't think of anything that doesn't sound corny!

CM: No, that's okay!

ELM: I mean, I guess I want to be seen as, I mean-- I don't know. When I entered into college and I was really young, I thought that I could change the world. I had been told, "You can change the world, you can do anything". That kind of stuff and I don't believe that is true. I don't think that I individually can change the world, but I think I can be part of the world changing. Maybe my greatest legacy would be that the world is better. It might not even be about me at all. Hopefully it isn't about me. If it's just about me, we've really set the bar low. I hope that there is something in a world that is better when I'm gone but it doesn't necessarily need to have my name on it. But I hope, obviously, I have an 11-month year old daughter. I hope that who she is and who her children are, if she decides to have children, I hope that the people who know me feel loved and supported and valued by me in a way that supports the work that they are doing. That they feel loved and valued and secure and are able from that space to then go out and be who they are meant to be. We are this tiny little part of this world changing. That is kind of corny sounding!

CM: No, that's okay! Since you kind of just hope to be a piece in the puzzle, what do you hope the legacy of the Nashville Food Project is?

ELM: Kind of going back to what we were saying. I hope that we set a different standard for what food looks like in venues and in spaces where vulnerable people are being served.

CM: Yes! For sure! Well, thank you.


 ELM: Thank you!