Interview of Emily Blackledge, September 25, 2020

Loes: So this is for my global leadership class, and we're just we're supposed to find some form of person of authority or leader, hence you, and just kind of see how they lead per say and just what advice you might have to give or just what you do. But yeah, so--

Blackledge: I'll do my best.

Loes: Would you mind just kind of introducing yourself and maybe saying, like, what your title is and what you do?

Blackledge: Yeah. Ok, so my name is Emily Blackledge and I am the president of African Leadership, which is a nonprofit 501C3 based. Our US is based here in Nashville, Tennessee, and our work is done all across the continent of Africa. So it is a 20 year old organization that I've been running now for four years, and really geared at creating a network of men and women across the continent of Africa who know and then using what they know, teach. And create a kind of ripple effect through the countries that are in the communities that they're serving around the idea that if you have the right tools, you can create and do it that way you want, and create environments in communities that are thriving without necessarily needing a whole lot of Western intervention.

Loes: That's awesome.You think if any of the accomplishments that would you say like you're kind of proud of or just anything that African leadership has done over the years?

Blackledge: Yeah, I mean, I think, like I said, it's 20 years old and so it's been around a lot longer. I've been here for 10 years and it's been around a lot longer than I have. And I'm really proud of, you know, the numbers are big. So when you have like eighty thousand graduates from our education program and we have like I think the numbers like 7.5 million people whose lives have been touched and impacted through the men and women who go through our education program. The numbers are great and they're big. To me, that's not super thrilling. I'm a numbers person. I'm an economics major. But I think the thing that I am most proud of is our structure. I as I, I said, I would never run a nonprofit. I would never run a nonprofit because with an economics degree, I can tell you that there's no sustainable funding. Right. There's very there's very few opportunities in the US tax structure and legal structure for nonprofits to make sustainable income. We've we've had our fair share of success in that world. But inevitably, the income grew so large that it threatened our non-profit status. We are always reliant on donor funds, which is great, except it's not quite the same as a capitalistic economy where there's supply and demand. And if you're a bad supplier and dries up, that isn't true. And so I think one of the things that I would say I'm most proud of is we've built a structure where Africa develops and dreams for Africa's sake and and the American influence, the Western influence or role in that work and in that partnership is is particular and strategic. But it is my voice is not the loudest voice at the table. And that is uncommon when I kind of poke at some of the other organizations that on me. I think what I'm most proud of is that we do it in a way that I have always wanted to do, which is why would you tell an African that's living in the middle of nowhere how to get water if they know best where the water sources like I'm not equipped to do that or know that well and I can pull my peace into it. But we've worked really hard to create a structure and a process where the African voice is honored and valued and also really easily heard.

Loes: That's a great.

Blackledge: That's probably the thing I love the most.

Loes: No. Yeah. Yeah. So, what would you say are some things that maybe happened in your background or anything personal in your personal life that led you to your position now, especially--

Blackledge: Girl, that's such a crazy question, because I hate to say that like all of it, but I am one of those people that kind of looks back on life and. Sees. Sees the things that my life became that I would never have I would never have geared a trajectory for or planned for, and so it kind of leaves me kind of like there is just in in my own personal belief, a bigger spiritual God is directing and orchestrating. But I know plenty of people don't believe in God. And so my friends, my my best friend is not a believer would say, like, there's just really great faith that works in your direction. But I would say, man, everything even down to the fact that, like, I was home schooled, my parents chose to homeschool me and my brothers. And what that meant in the 80s and 90s before it was quite trendy and popular as it is now, is that I got to just study what I wanted to. Like my mom didn't have a direction on what you studied when it came to history or world affairs. She didn't care. And so she just let you do what you wanted. And I learned I got to study the things I was passionate about. And I was intrigued by this continent of Africa and I was fascinated with war and conflict. All my brothers are in the military, so that makes sense. But like I also was really interested in, like, how else is there power? How where like what is soft power if you're not going to, like, bomb someone or if you're not willing to die for something like what other avenues are there for conflict management or negotiating? And so I just did a lot of that. I also have parts of my, like, upbringing and story that, like, I totally rolled my eyes at. You don't know this, but I used to roll my eyes at my parents, my father, he's a rocket scientist, by the way, so I don't understand quite this logic. But my father required us to write a theology paper every Friday. Handwritten in cursive, not something we read from the Bible. I rolled my eyes and pitched a fit and stood on some, like, legal basis every Friday and I lost and I had to write a theology paper. But, girl, now I run a non-profit that teaches the Bible and teaches economics and teaches how to speak and communicate clearly and and write really well. And I'm like, oh, crap. Even those freakin theology papers are useful, you know, like crap. Yeah. I mean, my economics background, I think education has a lot of has a lot of roles and places for me and my story of how I got here. I also think there's just a lot of like. Again, I would see things happening that were bigger than myself, like just being in the right place at the right time and asking questions of people. And I really I got involved in African leadership because I was bored. My husband was a traveling musician and gone all the time and we didn't have any kids. And so I was stuck in Nashville, which I moved here from Boston. So that felt like culture shock and horribly small. And he was gone. And I had an economics degree and I cared about international things. And so I just started volunteering at nonprofits that did those kinds of things abroad. And so, like, it's part of it is just you kind of land in the seat, and you leverage what things you have to offer and skills that you have. And I'm pretty vocal, I don't mind telling you, I think that's a really terrible idea or I think that's awesome. So I just kind of pitched in where I could. And then when I started here volunteering and then I quickly took on a part time job here and I just kind of kept telling my bosses all along, like, well, if you quit, I'm leaving because I don't want your job. I don't know how to do your job. And then inevitably, over the last 10 years, everybody's just quit or moved on or got married or whatever. And so I've absorbed more roles and new roles and stretched myself and grown professionally and.Yeah, yeah, it's all I got, that's how I got here.

Loes: That sounds amazing, especially at the beginning how you just how you said you did not want to work in non-profit, but now it's your life now right around that. And there are moments when I go, this is why I didn't want to work in non-profit. You know, it's hard. And yet, like, I'm also old enough to recognize it like work is work, right at some point, there it is, it requires something of you that is hard, whether it's just like creating the discipline to take the space in the time to go do that thing or write that thing for your boss. At some point there's something in it. It's like, I don't want to.Yeah, but at the same time, it's something that's just so much fun and I like to learn and I like to take on new things and so, yeah, kind of have to stick around because there's something new and interesting and like some problem or enigma to solve or some way. I want to look at it different.

Loes: And you just feel so passionate for this, just like what you're doing right now. I just think that's awesome and important. I'm going to throw a big question at you. What is leadership mean to you and what are some experiences that have shaped you as a leader? And sorry, I'll give you some time to think about it.

Blackledge: A great leadership mean to me, I think leadership for me is really a space of. Of being able to lead by example, and I can't use the word lead, can use the word in my definition of it here.

Loes: here are no rules here. It's all good.

Blackledge: Yeah, I just I and I would say that's true as a parent. I would say that's true as an employer, even in in peer to peer relationships, where I take the lead in something, I think it's far more around, like understanding that when you are the person out in front, like you're leading something that's a relational structure. Right. So all leadership is on some level a relational structure where like there is a person who has a place of value or authority that is on some level. Further along or higher up or however you want to say that, then where you are, right, that's that's the leadership of someone that's out in front. And I think that means to me, I think what I'm sensitive to is that that is far more a relational and a cultural opportunity than it is. Like rules and policies and procedures, so to me, modeling for my five year old that sometimes the leader doesn't know is really important. It's important to me and it's also a space where I can create for him and for our family a culture like I'm probably not going to get it right all the time. And being an adult or being your mom doesn't mean or being the boss because he calls me in our house, like doesn't mean that I'm. I know what to do all the time. And so part of it is modeling just an openness and an authenticity to that. I think I have experienced lots of different leadership styles where I am now. Looking back, I would say fear was probably the undercurrent, right? Like people who like they couldn't admit failure or they couldn't admit, like, I don't know what to do. And so they just they walled themselves off. They steeled themselves up. It was this like impenetrable. We're going this way. And I definitely don't lead that way. I'm not wired that way. I think there's a lot of value in all the different people that are sitting at the table, so. Now, I keep using, like, analogies for my kids. One of the things I've said to my son about perspective is just like. Everybody has a different perspective, and everybody's perspective can is valuable, and so it's important to hear all the perspectives. So when you're standing on the street corner, my perspective, because I'm so much taller than you, adds value. Like I can see cars and I can see things that you can't see. But your perspective when you're walking down the street is closer to the ground and you see the wonder and the bugs and the new life and the bright colors of a flower. And I want you to point that out in the same way that you need me to point out a car and and ah, and now we have twin babies. And so, like, their perspective is even smaller than Fletcher's and their they can't get any more out than like babbling and blowing bubbles. But it brings a joy that Fletcher wants to and needs to experience at five. And so I probably tend to lead with that same kind of mentality of like if we're all sitting at the table looking at like a problem or like, what are we going to do here? The person who's answering the phone is bringing their own perspective. And if I'm saying, what do you think is most wrong with our organization or what could we what could we build upon in 2021 that we're not doing a 2020, everybody's going to bring something different. And as a leader, I want to be a place where I value all of that and then not say like, nope, that's not it. Like there's only one thing that's important, but more like my role then becomes how do we incorporate all those things and and move forward in a stronger, healthier way? How do I give you ownership of different parts and places? How do we collectively make something better? And I think it comes from it comes from a place of me really believing that we're all better together. I can do more with money than I can by myself. Like, I just it's an economic principle at its core, like. I mean, yes, there's a tipping point, but like there's just there's scale and growth opportunity with the more you're willing to bring in. And so I just kind of tend to lead that way to I tend to ask for. Everybody's thoughts and opinions and perspective and and then my role becomes like sifting through that and hearing how they connect and intersect, and then what bubbles out of that is, you know, everybody brought something different, but we're going to build up this way and makes it unique. So that's your question?

Loes: Yeah. No, it does. I was just going to ask you again, just what are some of the challenges you've had to face because of having to delegate and just deal with everyone's perspectives put into one? Like, how do you face those challenges?

Blackledge: How do I face them? How do I face them? I don't. Not very well. You know, I think I'm just beginning to recognize in a new way, like I feel like leadership is equal parts like learning how to lead and then learning how to lead requires you to learn you some more. And so there's just like peeling back layers of an onion to yourself and to the organization you're running or whatever it is you're doing. I think for me, one of the challenges is recognizing what I'm not good at. I'm a pretty poor communicator.

Loes: You're communicating very well right now, though.

Blackledge: I should say, I definitely I am a poor communicator of tasks, because I think really strategically. And so I can talk all day long about ideas and leadership and we want to go here and and I can sell you on it and then like. Did I spend fifty two dollars at the grocery store or did I spend twenty five dollars the like? I don't know. It's no, it's not my role and my husband like so I think that's what I'm learning is not that I'm not a good communicator. Maybe a more apt response is my challenge is recognizing the places where I don't communicate well because they're not they're not it's not a part of my strength. Communication might be a strength of mine, but details aren't. And so I tend to be the leader that's like. I want you to project manage this, and in my brain, I'm thinking, well, you if you're like me, that's the assumption. If you're like me, you'll call when you're in over your head, know? And the poor, sweet, task oriented detail girl that sits in the office next to me is going, I think she's going to tell me eventually what she wants me to do. She just told me eventually I was in the project manager. And I'm thinking like she took off on the, you know, the steam engine and she's like barreling down the highway, that doesn't work. You'd have to be on train tracks, but like and and so we meet back up a month from now and I'm like, how's it going? And she's like, great, when am I going to start? And I'm like, what? What do you think? That's that's been really challenging for me is just recognizing like. Oh, you come to the table, it's hard for me to remember. How do I see it as well?

The biggest challenge for me is trying to remove the assumption that people are probably operating like myself, I know that sounds crazy, but like-- No, that's totally understandable. I naturally assume, like, you're going to if I ask you to do something, it's probably the thing that gets put at the top of your list, because I have a boss, I have a chairman of the board. And if he calls me, it could be like the most mundane task. But but the way I'm wired and operate is I'm you're my boss. I'm going to do that first, even over like writing a whole budget for next year. You asked me to, like, make a phone call. I'll do that right now, sir. Like, I just tend to operate that way. And then what's challenging as a leader is to recognize, like, well, Maggie may not operate that way. So I should have not only given her an assignment, but also. Built out the conversation around it like the deadline is X or when do you think you can be done with that by or like. So that I know we're on the same page, I kind of tend to just make us the small but really significant assumption that like going under the way I do.

Loes: I'm not going to lie. I probably do the same thing with just like group discussions, I'm just always the one, like, OK, we need to do this, we do this and like I like assign people's roles, but then they're just like, oh, I'm going to wait for the last second to do that. But that stresses me out right now.

Blackledge: And I think in theory, like I hear myself say it and I'm like, well, you're an idiot if you assume everybody does it your way, because at the same time, I value the fact that nobody does it my way. Like, I like various perspectives. So there's part of it that I'm like, how do I not? But I really don't in the smallest of nuanced ways. I assume if I send you a text and say, can you do this for me? If I don't put deadlines around it, I'm I'm assuming you're going to do it like kind of priority because I asked you to do it and you work for me, but that's just an assumption. So I think there's places where I'm learning one of the challenges. Going back to your question, one of the challenges is recognizing, like I bring a particular style of leadership and and that does I have one guy that I work with and that's like his favorite style of leadership. His favorite style is like, I need you to make sure that the ball ends up at this part of the field.

By this time, he's like, great. And he just runs it and he operates the whole thing and he makes it work. And then I have other people that I'm like, do you think you get the ball there by that time? They're like, Sure. And then the next time I talk to them, I'm like, how's it going? And they're like, well, I haven't done. And it's because I. They're waiting for me to spell it out and they want more like hands on leadership, like I hand you the plan and you're executing and I'm going, Oh, I'm I'm not a planner. I'm just learning. All those little pieces has been--. super interesting for me. Yeah, frustrating, I'll also say. I was I've been here, like I said, for 10 years, and I've only been the president for 4. And so with the exception of one person that I've hired, all of the staff, we were originally peers. And so that's been a challenge to change. The dynamic of our relationship has been challenging for me to I mean, some of these people I go to church with, I mean, so many people I've known best friends and have been at my wedding like I knew them way outside when they were here. And I wasn't a part of a like I have friends that I work with and I have peers and colleagues that I work with and then this and then you like just incrementally shift. I haven't changed. They haven't changed. We're still doing kind of our same jobs and yet like.

Loes: You're an authority now.

Blackledge: I'm the authority, and that feels weird, and it also feels like when I put my foot, I cannot put my foot down? Will they still like me if I put my foot down? So that's definitely been super challenging because I. Yeah, I think there have been times where I've thought it's easier and it is actually easier with the only person that I've hired since I've started, it is easier to work with that on some level because there's there was always built in that role dynamic. And so, yeah, now I can definitely see that as a challenge. Oh, my goodness.

Loes: Ok, I have another question. So who or what has been a great, great influence on you? It's like leadership roles. Any experiences that just kind of stuck with you and you feel like it was just a life changer or role models. What comes to mind? Who comes to mind?

Blackledge: What a great question.

Loes: I'll you ponder if you need to.

Blackledge: Interestingly enough, the the people that are probably most shaped, my leadership and my leadership style aren't leaders. Like aren't leaders to me. Meaning ones my husband and one is one of my best friends. I think what both of them and their relationships have done for me is really model and and and showcase, like, really great question asking, which has become a pretty massive staple of my leadership style. Like that very Democratic style of like, well, what do you think and how did that work for you? And have we tried that before? Because my has been in our relationship is so, so curious all the time. And because my best friend, who's several years older than me is is a counselor and she asks great questions all the time. It really has created a space where I feel celebrated for like the perspective that I bring and the uniqueness that I can offer. I feel honored or cherished. And in the in the actual creation of a question like you want to know me and you value my thought or my opinion on this. And so it's really shaped kind of a far more like the relational or democratic way that I lead if like I. What do you think I'm thinking about this idea? What do you think? Or what do you what is your reaction when I say this or when I throw out this vision versus that vision, like, what's your gut there? And so the way people can kind of engage with that and then help me build it out. It's definitely partly probably one of the most influential parts of my leadership is just.

Loes: Yeah, any any experiences in particular that just feel like kind of shapes you as a leader, as a person?

Blackledge: Yeah, now that I think about it. I my first job at African leadership was I was paid to be a consultant for them and I had been teaching at Belmont, I had taught at Boston University when I was in Boston. And so I had this background around education. And in particular, I think the thing that was attractive to African leadership was I had written curriculum for some of the classes I taught. And so they hired me as a consultant to rally our entire continental staff, our senior staff. There were all Africans from all over the continent because the Africans had decided they wanted to write because there was there's a particular course they kept looking for, like other organizations or other resources curriculum providers, and they couldn't find really what they wanted. They wanted to write it themselves. And so I was tasked with, like, be the basically the the editor like, bring all of that together, format it, figure it out, you know, whatever. We thought, I suppose it was six. It took us three years and multiple times there would be these they would do these three week long trips where I would fly to Africa, we'd all meet in one location. We would go through this course like page by page, activity by assignment by paragraph. Geez, Maggie, it was so eye opening to me, and one of the things that happened was on a tea break, we were standing around and one of our country directors was talking, telling a story. And you've probably heard the story. Your mom literally told the story. And he says to me, he's telling one of the other guys a story and he says, you know, the Mizuna well and up and, you know, wherever. What whatever village he was talking about and I went, what Mizuna, meaning white person to most Africans, kind of a slang word, I was like, I'm sorry, you have a Mizuna you have a white person. Is it only for the white people? What what is happening? I had never heard anything in Africa that felt like racially tied, even amidst all the tension from like tribe to tribe. You don't hear people just like throw out like, you know, like I can hear the South, like just a random phrase. You're like racist? Anyway so then he goes on to tell me, like, now, this well-intentioned nonprofit came to the village and saw that the water wells three kilometers away up the hill and the women walk twice a day. So they they built well right in the middle of the village. And and he literally was trying to move on to the story he wanted to tell. So he goes, well, these women, white people come. And I was like what? And so, anyway It's a beautiful story and it's got great like purposes and conversation points around like, you know, doing development well. But the reality was he ended up saying, like, nobody ever asked them why they walked and if they would want to not walk. Again, for me, it was a question of like, man, we make so many assumptions all the time, every day in all aspects of our life. And if instead we would stop ourselves, if we would become aware enough to recognize when we've moved from, like hearing the words coming out of your mouth to like. Making assumptions about that could trigger ourselves instead to stop and ask a curious question.

Loes: Have you ever heard of the book? Where am I Giving by Kelsey Timmerman? Blackledge: No.

Loes: We actually my classes ended up finishing this reading this book. And he basically talks about that. He goes to India, Kenya and Cambodia, and he just talks about how all these nonprofits or just groups or mission trips, they love to just go to other impoverished cities in other countries and just be there for about two weeks, maybe build some houses and then leave. And he talks about the importance of how it's better for it's better to be a local when you're giving rather than just a temporary visitor. And he's just that's one of his main topics. And he just goes on and on and on about like how it's great that you want to help. But just helping doesn't do anything. You've got to really think about it. You've got to be able to communicate with the locals and just then you will be able to help instead of just forcing what you think is right on them.

Blackledge: And that's the underlying premise of how and why we operate the way that we do. Like, I would present a strategic plan to our board in a month. And the reality is like I'm presenting it, but I didn't write it. Africa wrote it. And not just Africa, like South Sudan or the South Sudanese portion. And Uganda wrote the Ugandan portion and my other mind. And all I'm doing is like synthesizing that and going, OK, well, if you roll up these numbers and you roll up these objectives like it's going to be this across the continent. And then my job is to shove in the US strategy portion of that, like this is how we're going to grow or adapt or edit to make always.

But yeah, like how would I know what you need most and and what is most pressing? I don't know the difference between that answering that question in northern Uganda versus southern Uganda, like, I definitely don't know it in the most rural part of or the backside of a mountain in Rwanda, like yeah. And and then like, my life is just richer for it. Like stopping and asking the question why? And granted, I get some really dramatic conversations, right, I get to I get to stand in the middle of a war zone on top of lava ash and ask questions and get epic answers from big kids and little kids. And at the same time, like, I get to ask the question of my five year old while we're driving school, like, what makes you like this song more than that song? And his answers are wild, old, you know? And it's like and now I know these people, these human beings that exist all over the continent of Africa, all over the world. And my life is richer and fuller because of it. And the way I see the world is written fuller because. I mean, I stood on a mountaintop in two thousand and sixteen, I flew, though I had been in South Sudan in 2014, 2015, and then war broke out and millions of people cross the border and were in these refugee camps, and so I flew into northern Uganda to go to the refugee camps with our South Sudanese country director. And children are standing on this huge border and we're overlooking, I think, at that time, like four hundred thousand refugees. And I mean, all I have to do is say that and everybody has a picture in their brain. Right? You can you have a picture in your brain of like what? Four hundred thousand people roaming about tents and some white UN jeeps in Africa as it's dry and it's hot and all these things. Right. And so if you're standing there like you're you're having emotions and I would assume I'm making an assumption your emotions were probably a lot similar to mine, like oh, what are we going to do and how are we going to do here? And and just like every one of those people that he's writing about in that book, they want to help and is the first time in my life where I was like, I think I'm going to abandon all of my principles. I want to help you. And I'm standing there and I'm a new mom and I'm watching these moms with their baby. And I'm like, we got to do it. We're just going to dive in. Then throw it out. My principles and my theories, we're just diving in and I've got this like sadness and hopelessness and fear and adrenaline all running through me. And I'm kind of like at the scene. And my I, I turn my gaze up to Titos like one hundred feet taller than I am. And he's this big South Sudanese man and he is like beaming like a proud brand new dad, beaming. And I'm like. And I'm like, your face is not jiving with my heart. Like what? And I kind of looked at him funny and I was angry and shocked and he just was so kind and he looked at me and he said, "Emily where you see desperation, I see opportunity". And I literally was like, hell no. This is not opportunistic. This is not positive. And he said, let me show you. He said the next three days, taking me place by place and really basically getting to like those people didn't have time. That man got up at. That and the whole objective all along was to get to the end of the day, having found enough food to feed the five kids in the house, that it's all there's time for, you're slaving away because we're so subsistence and yes, war, war, war. War is just horrific. But, now somebody gave them a tent. Somebody will bring them food every month, like the most basic is taken care of. And so now we have vast opportunity and I'm like going to teach, like, mad while they're all here because they all want to go home. And that's what he's been doing. And he's just been like, so those places where I'm like I look at this world one way and that's not bad or wrong. And it and it will jumpstart me into action. But someone else is probably looking at the exact same experience from a totally different perspective. All the protests all over the US are proof of that. And so, like, where is the space for, like, really being being like active listeners who are hearing and then also having that kindness but value and what you have to say and yes, but like how do we all do that? How do we like to? Because it's we're much stronger together. So, yeah, I've had some really interesting experiences in Africa that make me go. I wasn't looking at it that way.

Loes: Just heightens or just like how important traveling is and just going to meet people wherever you go and stuff like that.

Blackledge: I would say yes, but but then I'll make the caveat that like I think we've created, I learned just as much and I'm just as flawed in my backyard. You know? like. It's different, it's not it doesn't feel epic, it doesn't feel grand, but it is grand. I mean, there's still sacred life happening in my backyard as much so as there is in a refugee camp. And sometimes it's as horrific. You know, that's like calling Scream and and and so I think we can get it in our brains that, like all be that kind of person when I'm in China, when I'm with the inner city kids in Detroit like, but we don't value our parents or our spouse or our kid or friends in the same way. I mean, I had like the most amazing conversation with my nanny today. And so many people would be like, they work for you, that's an employee and oh my gosh, she's teaching me all kinds of things about life and things that matter. And she's teaching me things about my kids because she's with them when I'm here, like, I just I think we can easily say we're going to be that that best version of ourselves, like, you know, on church on Sunday or when I'm in Africa, but when I'm talking to my mom or my brother and that is as unique, they they are truly as spectacular.We just don't value it. It's familiar. And so something something wears off about the shiny when it's when you're familiar with it.

Loes: No, of course it's would just like another one of his points. And he just mentions of how it's so much easier for us to be in that mindset when we're not home.

Blackledge: Right? Oh, yeah.

Loes: We're just we get into a groove. We only focus on, like, the things that are around us. But when we go somewhere else, we can focus, like zoon in zone in on just like one thing about building the house.

Loes: When you leave, you're going back to just waking up every day and going to school.

Blackledge: Or I'm making an assumption instead of asking questions, I'm making an assumption about my husband's sigh at 5:30 in the morning when he's getting out of bed, like making an assumption that's a thing. What was that about? Did you have a great idea? Like, we just don't we make assumptions the more familiar we are with routine and rhythm. And there's also really great health to retain and rhythm for our mental health and our beings. Like I get it. It's just there's always this tension of like, how do you keep trying to hold what is sacred in all of life, not just in those brief moments?

Loes: Yeah, no, that's that's so great. OK, one last question on you. What do you want your legacy to be?

Blackledge: Wow. Oh, gosh, I don't know that I've ever been asked that question, why do I want my legacy to be? I really want my legacy to be that, wow, I don't know, Maggie

Loes: I'm grateful that you are taking the time to actually think through the question, because the person I am, I would just like throw out all this stuff that I'm not really mean, but you're you're like..

Blackledge: I'm thinking about it, but you don't have the little kids at home. So I have a perspective of like, what do I actually care when their grandkids when they're talking to their grandkids about me? You know what I want? I should practice I should write this down, send me this recording now so that I can practice and become this person in rhythm. I want to be remembered for the fact that she was deeply aware of her need and deeply confident that it would be met. I that's way out of left field for you, but-- I think especially in a world with this pandemic. I think I'm just becoming aware that, like my friends who are the healthiest really are my friends in Africa, and it's because they're they're so unbelievably aware and not afraid of their need. And their needs are right in front of them. Right? Some of them need food. Some of them need a house, a roof over their heads. Some of them need money for school fees for their kids. And we are in the total opposite end of that spectrum where, like most of our culture is telling us to try to hide that. There is so much joy and so much peace that exists internally in my friends in Africa because they they know their name, there's no point in hiding it. I'm not trying to save face between me and Maggie or me and that person. Right. Like this is who I am. Here is all of me that's broken and needy and and and and has dreams that I can't fulfill on my own. And also, they're just deeply confident that, like, what will be will be and what I truly need will be taken care of. Whether God sends an angel or a rain shower or or provides an avenue for me to work like it's going to what I ultimately and truly need. The Lord gives and I think throughout this global pandemic, one of the things that I've just been so keenly like, it feels like it feels like in my brain that I keep having it be highlighted and all these relationships that I'm in or conversations that I'm in, like we just spend so much of our life posturing, right? Like, not good, good. You know, it is what it is like all these phrases around like and instead of instead of being really aware of our need and also confident that's going to be met. I think if I and what ends up happening is I place a lot of that need on unsuspecting people like if I if I'm growing insecure or afraid of my leadership and I feel like I may be messed up at work and I'm driving home and I'm living in the tension of like, I don't think I did that well, maybe I should have been more vocal

I get home and then when my five year old, you know, asks for something, I feel like here's my opportunity to redeem myself. No, I said no. You know, like your kid is totally unexpected. If instead I knew, like, I needed something from that interaction or I left feeling wanting in the woman that I am the boss, if I knew that and I could identify that and then make. Make myself aware of that and also the people around me, it's just so much more comfortable, like the times that I'm able to walk into my house and say to my husband, like I'm so stressed out, I've got so much to do at work, I didn't finish it before the day was over, I needed to come home, but now I go home and the house looks like they pulled everything out of every drawer they could find.

I know I need to work out some of my angst, would you take them on a walk for 15 minutes and let me run through this house like a bat out of hell, get out some angst and create some like Zend. If I know that, and he's willing to participate with me, if we can enter into an evening that totally doesn't look like Mama came home pissed. Yeah. So I think I want to be a person that's aware of their need and then then and then open about that, like, how do I talk about that and tell you what I need and ask for help and how to model that for my kids. And flushers reached a point at five of of asking like if I ride my bike standing up or don't make you really nervous. Like he's very aware that because we've modeled for him like, hey, sometimes I say no to you because my fear, my fear is really great. Like, no, I don't want you to. Fall and slip and break something, so I'm saying no, you know, and what you want, but I have to say no. And so like, yes, I think I just want some big question. I reserve the right to send you a small book later next week, all the things I think I want my life to me.

Loes: But yeah, no, I definitely I was just such a great response and just answer just sort of knowing what you need or knowing what you want and just being more satisfied and content and just being able to speak your mind is just very important.

Blackledge: Yeah. Yeah. I Don't do that well yeah but yeah.

Loes: So that's all I have for today. That's all I have for today. But I just want to thank you so much for. Oh my God this interview it was I had a really great time just getting to talk to you. Getting to know what everything of how you lead and stuff like that.

Blackledge: I hope you get enough out of this for your project if you have more questions or need a better answer, let me know.

Loes: Oh, sounds good.