Polly: Okay so I'll give you a little background on our project. We were told to
find a leader who we looked up to and then someone who led a non-profit or any local community field and so I chose you for my interview and thank you so much for letting me interview you. So, I kind of chose you when I was thinking about how you started Camp CAMP and you've led the Catholic Worker House for so long now. Do you know what part of your own background kind of led you to these types of positions? Like growing and just background in certain working fields?
Dr. Chris: No, I didn't do things because I though them out. Something happened
which totally, in a few moments, changed my mind, so it wasn't pondered. I pondered about marriage. I pondered medical school. Those were not-- and I'm not so sure those turned out so well. (laughs) But Camp CAMP was a, you know, it was a catastrophic moment and going to Catholic Worker was not planned either. I don't want to say it was catastrophic (laughs) but I mean, you just, you know, your mind wakes up and there you are. You don't know how you got there, you know?
Polly: Yeah.
Dr. Chris: It wasn't like, 'oh, I think I'll start'. I don't know how to explain
it, Polly.
Polly: So, you feel like what led you to this position was just you kind of
happened to be somewhere at a certain time and things just wound up this way?
Dr. Chris: Well, I don't know if you know the CAMP story.
Polly: I don't know the CAMP story. I would love to hear it.
Dr. Chris: I mean, it was the summer after my freshman year of college and I had
been a missionary in Mexico and I had 3 weeks before college was going to start in the fall and my best friend from Louisiana called me and said "Oh Chris, could you come to the Lion's camp for crippled children?" (which is what it was called) "and help us? We lost a lot of counselors." And I told her, "I don't know anything about disabled kids!" Of course, back then we called them handicapped children. And she says, "Chris, we just need a warm body to push a wheel chair. You can do it!" I went there and they put me on cabin duty all by myself the very first day. I had no training. Nothing. And I had 10 campers around 10 years of age and you know they never sleep at rest period and I was on cabin duty at rest period and all of a sudden, blood was flying all around the room. And one of my little boys with down syndrome stuck his foot in a fan. And back in the 60s we didn't have all the safety things, you know? So it cut off 2 of his toes and they were flying around the room and blood was everywhere. And, I mean, I was (laughs) I was a disaster. And you know, it was a big emergency. The camp director came in and he said, "Young lady, sit down here." And he made me sit on the bed and I thought, he's going to chew me out. And he put his arm around me and he said, "You know, Chris, you are never going to forget this day." And that moment, I decided to start a CAMP for children with disabilities to prove to him that I wasn't some nincompoop idiot, you know?
Polly: (laughs)
Dr. Chris: That was the basis. I went to medical school to start that camp. I
didn't really want to be a doctor but somebody told me, "if you want to do that, you should be a doctor." So, that day changed my life. What was I? 19?
Polly: Yeah.
Dr. Chris: *audio cuts out*
Polly: So sorry, did not mean to interrupt you there but I was going to say was,
was the Lion Camp near where Camp CAMP is now?
Dr. Chris: Oh no it was in Louisiana. But the Lion's, there is a Texas Lion's
camp in Kerville.
Polly: Oh okay. Oh, that's what I was thinking of.
Dr. Chris: Yeah. We used that camp several times before we got our own place.
You know, we rented it out.
Polly: Yeah. I think I had heard that before. That's not the one that y'all
worked out.
Dr. Chris: Yeah, yeah. The one that changed my life was the one in Louisiana.
Polly: Do you feel like there was any defining moment like that that led you to
Catholic Worker House?
Dr. Chris: Oh yes. (laughs) In that case, I was working on a chapter for a
textbook for pediatricians and I was writing the chapter on autism and I'd written so many chapters for other things and articles, I felt like I was plagiarizing myself and I just couldn't -- I couldn't really get into it because I couldn't think of a new way to say things. You know what I mean?
Polly: Mmhm
Dr. Chris: I guess, I guess it was writer's cramp. That's the only time I've
really had writer's cramp if that's what it is. But I was holding that publication of the textbook and the editors were not really happy with me. (laughs) And they stressed, you know? We need your chapter and I just, I just surrendered to God and I said, "You know, God? I can't do this. I just cannot think of a different way to write this so that it's different, you know?" I said, "Tell you what, God." It was a year after I resigned from CAMP as executive director and medical director. So I had a little time on my hands. So I said, "Dear God, you know what? I'll give you 20 hours a week in community service in anything that you want me to do. Mopping floors. I don't care. Take me out of my comfort zone if you want to. Then help me get this chapter done. I got to get it done." And so that night, I had a dream and my dream was that I was meeting my pastor in the Alamo dome. (laughs) And he walked into me and he says, "Oh, I got to go to the bathroom." So I waited, and I waited, and I waited and he never came out. I went in the men's bathroom. There was no game going on or anything. I don't know why we were there. And he was kneeling on the floor taking care of what seemed to be a man who was homeless who had vomited. Maybe, you know, he had been drunk. I don't know. But I woke up. And I thought, Oh God, does this mean you want me to work with people who are homeless? And, Polly, throughout my life, the things that guide me is -- I call it a through punch from God. And the first time something comes up like that dream, I say it. It punches me in my head, like in my brain, and I take notice. Oh okay. Is this what you want me to do, God? I really don't want to do this at all. Please tell me it's not to work with homeless people because I've never done that before and they're adults. And I don't know anything about adults. So then, so that got my attention and so, that day I really did have an appointment with my pastor because he was leaving town. They assigned him to a new town so I went to say goodbye to him. And as I was leaving, walking out, he gave me a book. He says, "Chris, I wanted to give you one of my favorite books." And it was the book on Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker House. I didn't even know who Dorothy Day was. I thought it was Dorris Day. You know, I didn't know any better. And I opened it up to the preface and I went, "Oh, she started a shelter for homeless people." And I went, Oh God, no. And then, it drops to my -- it's the second punch within 24 hours and it drops to my heart. And I go, "Oh dear God, really? If this is what you want me to do, I'll do it because I promised you and I love you, but I don't want to do it." So then, you know, I drive to work and I go down the same way to work every day, but then I was in the clouds. I don't know, I think I was worrying about having to give my 20 hours working with homeless people. And I took a wrong turn and I ended up at the bridge on commerce street where the SAM ministries has their shelter. I'd never been there before. When I was driving under the bridge, all of a sudden, all these people came up to my car, motioning with their hands, like, you know, like eating. Their hand to their mouth like, do you have food? And of course, I didn't have any food at all so I had to just shrug my shoulders and try to inch my car forward, while they were all kind of tapping on my car. And that's when it goes to your gut. And when it goes to your gut then you know that that's what God wants you to do. And you cannot NOT do it. So by the time I got to clinic I knew my 20 hours was going to be with homeless people and I called up Catholic Worker that day. And they let me volunteer. And then, you know? I just volunteered one day -- well, I volunteered 20 hours a week, but a lot of it was at night and weekends. And then I went for 2 days and your mom came to help. And then, after 5 or 6 years I was the director and you know the rest.
Polly: Mmhm. That's crazy. That is a pretty incredible story how the Catholic
Worker House came to be for you. I did not know about that.
Dr. Chris: Yeah, you know, in things like getting married and going to medical
school and having a baby, I don't think I was called to do any of those things. You know what I mean? I did them, but those were not -- I never felt like those were God's plan for me. But CAMP and Catholic Worker, I was sure it was God's plan for me. Does that make sense?
Polly: Yeah. You were called into that leadership position.
Dr. Chris: Right.
Polly: What are some obstacles or challenges that you faced either at Camp CAMP
or the Catholic Worker House that you had to learn from or change? Because I feel like you're always someone who's constantly improving.
Dr. Chris: Well, both of them -- both of them were people who society didn't
want anything to do with. Back with Camp CAMP in 1979, remember we didn't have the ADA. People with disabilities were hidden in institutions. They weren't at CAMP. They weren't in society. They weren't in regular schools. They were in institutions. And so, when we started CAMP, people didn't want to see children with disabilities. Camp CAMP was on TV in 1981, and it was the first time that disabled children were shown on our local news program. Nobody wanted to see kids with disabilities. They looked down on them. They thought they had a problem. You see what I mean? And so then, then now, people look down on people who are homeless. They don't want to see them. We don't have an ADA for the homeless, you know? They're now the people that--they're the lepers. I don't know if that means anything to you. From the Bible. You know, the lepers were the outcasts. And children with disabilities or people with disabilities were the lepers of the 1950s, 60s, 70s. And now, you know, people who are homeless are the lepers.
Polly: So you were saying that in the 80s that Camp CAMP had been shown on TV
for the first time.
Dr. Chris: Well, children with disabilities. I mean, it was the first time for
CAMP, but that's not important. What is important is that they showed children with disabilities smiling and laughing and having a good time and people hugging them and loving them. You know, all the CAMP kind of stuff. And when that news film was show, I got called from all sorts of people saying, "Did you know that they have never shown disabled children on the TV news ever? And y'all have broken the ice." These are people who worked with kids with disabilities like Project ABC, the Unicorn Center, MHMR, and they couldn't believe that our kids got on TV in a good light. You know? In a good impression.
Polly: That is crazy. I feel like Camp CAMP has been a very ground breaking area
for the disabilities community. At least, within Texas. It seems like it's known far and wide. But that's crazy that it's had that much of an impact and that it did that then. What would you say is your best advice for helping people whose voices often go unheard? Like helping amplify their voices?
Dr. Chris: Well, I think the most important thing is listening to them. (laughs)
I think a lot of times advocates go off on a tangent and say, you know, kids with disabilities need this or people who are homeless need this and this is what they want and really what they're doing is projecting their own ideas and needs and wants onto the people and they're not really sitting down and listening, you know? And really, really, really informing the public of what really is their needs and their wants and not the advocates ideas of that, you know? Because we get it all wrong. And we think we know it all but we've got to sit down and listen. And, you know, with children with disabilities, it was listening to the parents. I used to go to slumber parties. (laughs) My patient's mothers were in the military, of course, and they all kind of knew each other and they would have a slumber party one Friday night a month, where the husband stayed home with the kids and they would just have to do that to voice their complaints and frustrations and they invited me to those slumber parties. (chuckles) That's when I learned how difficult it was and how many challenges, you know, that these families put up with. And they never had a weekend free or a week where they could go on a vacation and, you know, I realized how important CAMP was, not just for the child but for the family, you know?
Polly: Yeah. I think that that's something I definitely learned when I
volunteered at Camp CAMP. It definitely gave that impression. Or it definitely gave perspective on what the parents and the family as a whole can go through. What characterized your leadership style? Or how would you characterize your leadership style?
Dr. Chris: (Laughs) Probably too bossy. (laughs) I don't know how to answer
that. I don't know how other people see it, but I see myself as being very strong-willed and bossy, and I don't like it. I don't like it one bit. I don't really know, I haven't thought of it much, except that I hate myself when I'm bossy and stubborn.
Polly: Mmhmm. Well, what would you say -- what are your strengths as a leader
and what are your weaknesses as a leader?
Dr. Chris: Well, I think my strength is that I'm single focused when I'm in
something like this and I put all my energies into it. I don't divide my energy. I, you know, (laughs) which is probably a horrible thing. I don't divide my energy to family or social life or any -- you know -- I'm thinking that's good, you know? For the organization, but it's bad for life in general, but that's just the way I am. I'm very focused and goal-oriented and I will work day and night to get something done. And my weakness is I don't pay enough attention to people -- as I -- you know -- I think I take people for granted that are helping.
Polly: Mmhm. Like because it's so hard to divide your energy, it can come across
as taking others for granted?
Dr. Chris: Well, no, I'm just saying I'm focused and that's a strength. But my
weakness is I think sometimes I just expect others to focus as much and I take their help for granted and I assume they want to work or volunteer long hours, but I take them too much for granted. I don't pat them on the back enough.
Polly: Well, do you have a person who you would say has been your greatest
influence or a thing or like a company, organization, Dorothy Day?
Dr. Chris: Yeah. Well, I guess with homelessness it would be Dorothy Day. And
with children with disabilities it was a long time ago, it was Robert Mauve, he was the director of the Lion's Camp in Louisiana. I would call him all the time for advice. Of course, Dorothy I can't call for advice, I can only pray to her. (laughs)
Polly: oh my gosh. I feel like you have great people to look up to for those 2
specific things.
Dr. Chris: Yeah, I mean, Dorothy's written so many books, so that's how she
guides me, reading her books and seeing how she felt about things. Cause I can't talk to her like I can Mr. Mauve.
Polly: So I have a few more questions, this is kind of wrapping up everything.
But what advice would you have for building relationships and trust within an organization? Which I feel like you must be pretty good at since you spent a very long time at both Catholic Worker House and Camp CAMP now.
Dr. Chris: I'm not sure I know what you mean by that question. Can you..?
Polly: Oh like what advice would you have for like building -- I guess -- a
community within an organization or building relationships that function well together?
Dr. Chris: Well, it kind of goes back to what I said before. Starting a new
organization, you don't want to just start out cold. You want to talk to people who are doing similar things. You know? You got to do your research or you're building relationships with people already in the field because, even though you're doing something a little bit different, it's still going to come across as competitive. And unless you meet with them ahead of time and see what they're up to and what areas that they won't or can't serve, then you're going to look competitive. You want to be collaborative. You want to say, "Wow, y'all do such a good job at blah, blah, blah-- what is it that you see is a need in your organization but not one that you can fill? So maybe we can help out with that area." So you're building a collaborative relationship, working together to put all the pieces together, since nobody can do it all in one organization. And then, you build that relationship so they don't feel like you're competing. You're actually collaborating and everybody's trying to put all the pieces of the puzzle together and work together as a team.
Polly: Yeah. That is really good advice. Well, this is kind of a big question,
but this is the final question for today. What do you want your legacy to be? If you've thought about this.
Dr. Chris: I've really not thought about. That's funny because -- I forget what
I was reading today -- that came up: What would you want your legacy to be? Oh I know! It was an article on Adam Sandler. Is that right? The comedian?
Polly: Yes
Dr. Chris: I don't really know him and, you know, I don't even know what he said
but I remember thinking that: I've never thought about that. You know? I really haven't because I guess I feel when I die, I die and I'm not really going to give a hoot what comes after, I mean, in the world on earth. So I don't really think it's important because I just want to do the best I can do. And I know--well, I did. Somebody said, "What would you want to put on your gravestone?" And I did think about that. I don't know if that's a legacy, but I thought what I would want on my gravestone is that "She tried." With "tried" underlined or something. "She always tried to do the will of God."
Polly: Mmhmm.
Dr. Chris: And that's as far as I can get with my legacy.
Polly: Yeah, I feel like that can go well with what you want your legacy to be
-- what you want on your tombstone. They kind of sound interchangeable.
Dr. Chris: And I guess because I went from disabilities to homelessness, what
links the 2 is trying to help the person that are most neglected or underserved. You know?
Polly: Yeah
Dr. Chris: You know, trying to fill in those gaps.
Polly: Yeah, trying to help the people who not many people are helping.
Dr. Chris: Yeah, the most underserved. The most neglected. Because there's lots
of people that want to rescue dogs. Don't get me going on that. (laughs) You know? I mean, that's a competition. There are so many organizations and people and when you have big fundraising events, it all goes to animals. So, you know, I'm not going to rescue -- I'm not going to do any of that. There's a zillion people who want to rescue dogs. I want to rescue the people who nobody else wants to rescue, you know?
Polly: Mmhmm. Yeah. I think that would be a really good legacy to have. I feel
like you will have that legacy. (laughs) I feel like it's already created for you. I know my parents have always talked so highly of you. So in my family, you are a very honored name.
Dr. Chris: Well, I think Mary Ellen would more rather strangle me most of the
time! (laughs)
Polly: She gives that off. It's just her little joke. Okay, well I'm going to
let you go. Thank you so much for doing this interview with me today.
Dr. Chris: Well, I hope it recorded for your sake.
Polly: Me too! I think it did. I think I'm just going to have to combine like 4
different recordings. We'll see how that goes.
