Bastien:
Hello! Okay, I know you would already know who I am but I'm just going to
introduce myself for the interview's sake. My name is Bastien Dal Farra, And here we have dr. Beth Ritter Conn. And would you like to go ahead and introduce yourself really quick?Dr. Beth:
Sure, I'm Beth Ritter Conn. I am an assistant professor of religion here at
Belmont University. I've been teaching here for about eight years and I had the pleasure of having Bastien in class last year.Bastien:
So this interview is focused on leadership and on your positions of leadership.
So really quick could you maybe just share some organizations that you might be part of? Or any position of leadership that you might hold in your role as a professor here just before we dive into the questions?Dr. Beth:
Yeah. I am currently serving as the secretary of the faculty senate. So I'm on
the Senate executive committee, the senate leadership. And in part because of that, I'm also on several other committees in which I'm not really in a leadership position but in which I participate, I am on the catalog and curriculum committee on the bylaws committee and I serve as a representative to the senate on behalf of the lecturers at Belmont.Bastien:
Great, okay thank you. Okay, so let's dive into this first one here. So starting
off, what part of your personal biography or background led you to this position? I know that's a pretty broad question.Dr Beth:
it's a good question. I think my partly because I was so involved in school and
leadership groups, I was always really involved in church, I was a worship leader, I was a youth leader. I just kind of couldn't help saying yes, when people ask me to do things that I think some of that just comes from my personality. I think currently I was excited to be a part of Senate leadership this year because of the other people who were involved. I was excited to learn a little bit more about leadership really, from watching them. My colleagues dr. Aaron Schenkel, dr. Nathan Griffith and dr. Haskell Murray, I really respect and admire them. They've all been here longer than I have and I was excited to work with them and learn from them.Bastien:
Okay, awesome, thank you. Okay, so next, what cultural identities or experiences
are most salient for you?Dr. Beth:
Like for my personal life?
Bastien:
I would assume so.
Dr. Beth:
Could you repeat the question please?
Bastien:
So it's what cultural identities or experiences are most salient for you?
Dr. Beth:
I guess, if I'm understanding the question right, I think that my gender plays a
big role in in the way that I see myself. I think I'm really drawn to the example of women in leadership and kind of needed to see those role models when I was a girl and a young woman and so I think I'm constantly just kind of trying to be the kind of woman that I needed to see modeled for me.I think also religion, I'm a Christian woman who didn't see a lot of that in
church when I was younger. That I think is a motivator for me as well. I hope that I hope that is the right answer the kind of answer that that question.Bastien:
Perfect, Thank you so much. Okay, what experiences have most shaped you as a leader?
Dr. Beth
That's a really good question and then take a second to think about it. I can't
think of any really good examples right now, but I know that unfortunately I am one of those people who learned really good lessons from making mistakes. No good examples are coming to mind right now, but unfortunately failure is a really good teacher.So you know, some sort of missteps and things I wish I said differently or you
know that someone pushed back on me about has been really good teachers. I think also I learned a lot just from collaboration and so I think a lot of times people think of a leader as just this one individual who stands apart and makes decisions, but that's not how I have learned.I think I've learned from leaders who are collaborative, who engage multiple
perspectives and who want the work to be a group effort, and who you know take credit, share, share credit for the success and own up to the failures. I know that's not very specific but those experiences.Bastien:
I definitely resonate with that about them. Oftentimes it takes making a mistake
in order to learn which is interesting how that worksDr Beth:
but it's really inconvenient.
Bastien:
Yeah, but convenient in a way
Dr Beth:
it's quick. Yeah.
Bastien:
You never forget it either. Okay. Were you called into a leadership? Sorry were
you called into leadership, or did you seek it because of held convictionsDr. Beth:
In the current roles that I play I was called I wasn't seeking leadership
positions. Yeah I think as much as I like to be involved in stuff, I don't often have the confidence to kind of put myself forward as the leader but if someone sees something in me and invites me to it, I'm like oh well maybe you're right, maybe I can do that thing.Bastien:
And has that been kind of a theme throughout your whole life? Just in terms of
any kind of little like position you've been as a leader even like as a child or IDr. Beth:
I think most often. Yeah, and I think some of that is just my personality, I'm
very outgoing, I'm very extroverted and so a lot of times people you know see that and think well that person should be in charge of something. sometimes I think it is more a function of my personality than any skills that yeah,Bastien:
but you always feel like it's mostly been other people inviting you and it's
never just been like something that just naturally happens. ... Yeah.Dr. Beth:
I think sometimes the other, I interpret other people asking me as a natural
thing happening right? Rather than me speaking out and making it happen.Bastien:
Right. alright, okay. How have you learned from obstacles and challenges that
you've faced in academia?Dr. Beth
There is often moments you're just kind of constantly facing rejection whether
it is submitting a paper for a conference that doesn't get accepted or applying for a job that you don't get or you know, and early on in my career I was just devastated by those rejections. But what I've learned is that there's almost always another opportunity around the bench and so I think I've just learned to keep going and shake off the rejections and learn not to take them personally most of the time and look ahead to what opportunities are available now that I haven't been able to take advantage of some other opportunities.Bastien:
Yeah, I mean I feel like so many people in their lives just close off so many
options for themselves in fear of rejection. That is always really impressive for me. I mean like fear of rejection is probably like up there in those top like couple fears.Dr. Beth:
Yeah.
Bastien:
Alright here we go. This is a serious one. Okay. What does leadership mean to
you? ...Dr. Beth:
I'm trying to figure out if I have something really profound to say. But this is
kind of off the cuff. I think to me it means a commitment to try to make things better for the people who are depending on you. Okay. And I think it also means taking responsibility for, whatever happens with the decisions that you make on behalf of other people, the people to whom you are accountable.Bastien:
Okay. Thank you.
Bastien:
Alright. Who or what are some of your primary inspirations?
Dr. Beth:
You've heard me talk about this person but I had a professor in college and then
a little bit in graduate school who I think modeled model something I didn't know a person could be. I had never seen, I just didn't have good models of, you know, women leaders, women professors in specifically in religion. And her name was Barb and she was so patient and so kind.Even when people were mean to her were disrespectful to her and I just watched
her keep doing the work, keep doing the things that she was called to do regardless of any feedback that she got, she just kept on going. So she's definitely a big part of the reason why I am who I am today. Both of my parents are people who have been in various leadership roles, whether at work or in church and they both just have a lot of integrity and I think instilled in my brother and me just the idea of; you do what you said you were going do. Just follow through on the thing you committed to and yeah, I think those are the people that come to my mind most readily.Bastien:
Ok cool. Thank you. All right. How would you characterize your leadership style?
Dr. Beth:
flying by the seat of my pants? That's a good question. I don't really know. I
think relational I guess was it? And improvisational, I feel like I don't always know quite know exactly how things work institutionally and so we'll figure this out, right? We'll find the person the answer. But the most important thing to me is always relationships,Bastien:
definitely. I mean we're learning a little bit about the different styles of
leadership, and I mean yeah it's interesting how there's so much variety in terms of the styles and in terms of what's effective for some people but not for others. Alright. What are your professional strengths and weaknesses or and or weaknesses?Dr. Beth:
I think that I'm a good communicator, I think I'm a pretty good communicator.
Maybe not in this interview, but I think I'm a pretty good, you know, verbal communicator. I think I'm a good written communicator. I think that I have a tendency to maybe over worry about how someone is going to receive what I say, but I think that helps me communicate in an empathetic way that even if I have to say something difficult to hear, I think that I'm doing it in a way that is kind you know.Weaknesses. I think I can be a procrastinator and I think that's a function of
kind of being a recovering perfectionist. And I still can second guess myself sometimes and don't always kind of operate with the confidence that I wish that I had.Bastien:
Yeah, so in terms of what you said about worrying that things don't land
properly when you see them, that's something that I can definitely resonate with. As a professor and just as someone who is constantly needing to speak to other people what are some strategies or some ways that you've kind of learned to deal with that? If that makes sense.Dr. Beth:
Yeah, I think one lesson that I am constantly trying to learn is that being nice
and being kind are not the same thing. I'm a just a really bad people pleaser and I want everyone to be happy and never be right. But sometimes the kindest thing is to say the hard thing. That's true and so I think just trying to train myself. You have the opportunity instead of putting it off because you're worried about, I also think I'm always thinking about myself as a college student, you know, sitting in those chairs or sitting in my professor's office and trying to think what did I need to hear, you know, what would have been special for me to hear in this moment? So that's one of the strategies.Bastien:
Okay, great. And there was one more thing you said at the end of your last one
about the so being a people pleaser. As a people pleaser myself, I know how difficult and confusing and unfulfilling that can be sometimes, and just separately on that on that whole topic. What are some, I mean as a professor, I'm sure and as and as someone who's involved in in multiple groups, I'm sure it's difficult to see a lot of times, all of the suffering. Because I mean since you're around so many different people, and the more people around the more exposure you have to a lot of like the suffering that a lot of people go through. Do you ever feel like responsible for them in a way? I remember for example, so in our class, it just feeling like a very like a safe space. Do you ever like consciously try to make the space that you are directing or involved with a place for people to wind down if that makes sense? Like is that something that you're that you're consciously thinking about and something that you've that you've thought about in the past just in terms of wanting everyone to be happy all the time.Dr. Beth:
that's a good question. It's definitely something so in my research, like my
academic research and theologies of hospitality, so I'm constantly kind of thinking about how do we make whatever space this is a place where everyone can feel welcome and that's tricky when you've got a lot of different kinds of people in a room and some people are embodied in ways that makes them more vulnerable because of, you know, race, ethnicity, you know, gender than the sexuality, whatever. And so like, people who might be more vulnerable, I'm most concerned with them feeling safe and comfortable, but I'm really concerned with making, you know, every classroom or, you know, meeting room that I'm in a place where people can feel like they can say what they need to say and that we can trust each other enough to kind of hear generously and correct any misunderstandings that arise in a kind and civil way.And it's just it's always practice, right? Like we're never gonna perfect that
art. And people feel passionately about things and emotions can run high when you're, you know, either in the committee meeting or in a classroom. Right? And so I think the short answer to your question is yes, I'm consciously thinking about that and it's always an imperfect attempt.But it is something and I think I have to just acknowledge that it's not always
gonna work for everyone, not everyone in that room is gonna buy into to that work of space, great space and you do the best you can and try to make as many people feel comfortable as you can,Bastien:
even if you're making one person happy.
Dr Beth:
Sure.
Bastien:
What or who has been your greatest influence? I know that's a little bit similar
to the inspiration question, but just slightly from a different angle, what or who has been your greatest influence?Dr Beth:
I mean, I think I probably still see my parents. I know not everyone lucky
enough to have two excellent parents that I for some reason hit the jackpot. They were both my mom and my dad were very hands on and involved and nurturing and encouraging to me my whole life. They've always been in my corner, and have been good sounding boards for struggles or for decision making processes and I think they both always, like in their sort of disciplining of me were always able to teach that being honest is kinder than just letting it slide kind of thing, which I often interpreted as being really strict, but you know, I think that that helped to form me in a lot of ways.Bastien:
Yeah, no, that's interesting. I can relate with you on that. I mean I am, I have
amazing parents and I'm really, blessed and lucky, but I feel like part of me didn't really realize how lucky I was until I came to college because I grew up in such, I was exposed to a lot of cultures and to into many things, but I feel like coming to college was the first time that I really got out of like this little like bubble that I was in.And it wasn't until I started meeting so many people that I realized that most
people don't have that steady foundation of really caring and loving, reliable, figures in their life. And I mean I remember just being pretty shocked when I first came here, and it totally changed me.It helped me grow in terms of how I communicate and how I'm more sensitive to
people that I meet just knowing that things are like that. It's a big learning curve.Dr. Beth:
Yeah, I mean, I, I'm with you.
Bastien:
And it's interesting. I, I am going a little off topic, but it relates. Between
high school and college. I took a gap year and I did a semester program, like survival camping in the Rocky mountains. It was really fun and I learned a lot about myself and one of the things that I remember learning the most is was-- I mean it's crazy to think about how it took me like 18, 17 years to really learn this. I learned to really appreciating my parents, and so many things about my life because when I was on that trip I didn't have access to my phone. I just had me and what was on my back. Like my sleeping bag and my food and everything. And it's interesting how it took everything being taken away to finally appreciate and realize all of.I just remember having this like aha moment where I just finally realized how
amazing and how lucky I am and I learned to appreciate so many things about my life and I think it's interesting just as a theme about how sometimes it takes everything being taken away in order to realize that you had it in the first place.Dr Beth:
totally. That's really powerful.
Bastien:
Great, okay, next one. Leaders help turn ideas into action and empower others.
How do you accomplish this?Dr Beth:
Leaders turn ideas into actions and empower others. ... I hope that I do, ...
you know, there are some people who are really good at the idea's thing, they can envision things and see the big picture that's not my strength. I'm not like about 30,000 ft view kind of person. I'm very detail oriented and I can see like the logistics and the tiny minutia, you know the details of we want this and we have to do this, this, this is so I think, I think that is the strength that I have, I think there are different gifts that you need to make that process happen and my gift I think is in getting the little things done or helping to find the people who know how to get the things done. I think this kind of goes back to that relational thing. If you know the people to whom you are accountable and for whom you are responsible, then you know whose strengths match with a task.And so then you can kind of delegate or you know recruit and empower a little
bit more effectively.Bastien:
That's interesting because I remember listening to this podcast about some ideas
that Plato had and I think it was him that talked about how in a perfect society everyone everyone's task that they have, like for example the blacksmith and it's something that they're like, it's a natural talent. it's the concept about placing people in a workplace where they're naturally gifted. And that ability to delegate and split things up in the places where people have their strengths.Dr Beth:
I think that's cool because I mean I feel like sometimes people have people have
these big views on all the group as a whole and not necessarily as like the individual people in the group and then I feel like maybe in that sense it could be in a way, not harder, but it's just a different approach to action, right? Because it's less personal. And I do think both to hold the whole thing together, but then people taking care of the details.Bastien:
Definitely. Do you feel it is important to delegate if so why? When and how do
you delegate?Dr. Beth:
This is the place where what I believe and what I do don't always. So yes, the
answer is yes, I do believe it is important to know one person can do all the tasks well and if you try, you get a burnout. So that is what I believe. And also I don't know what the nice way to say control freak is, but I have a little bit of that and I'll just do it like I know the best I can do it right? And so I'm bad at delegating sometimes because I think I'll just get it done really quickly and sometimes I value efficiency over quality. And so for that reason I think if you've got a big task delegating and inviting more voices and more people into the work generally makes it better and I'm not always good at doing that.Bastien:
Yeah, thank you for your honesty. How do you measure success? And how do you
learn from failure?Dr Beth:
Mhm. ... Mhm. ... That's a good question. I guess probably the answer depends. I
think probably the one that comes to mind is ... oh, ... come goal. That seems very vague though. And how do I learn from failures? That's another question. ... Um ... I've never really thought about the precise mechanism by which we learn from failure. I just know that we do, I know that I do. This is such a good question. I'm just trying to really think about it. ... I don't know what's going to come out of my mouth, but I'll just say one of the things. One of the things that I've been working to learn in the last few years is how deep how deep white supremacy has infiltrated so many aspects of our life, even in the ways that we that we do measure success and all these things. And one of the things that was interesting to me to learn from someone is that perfectionism can be a symptom of whiteness of white supremacy and you know, there's particularly since 2020 with the murder of George Floyd, there's obviously been a lot of really good and necessary conversation, particularly among white folks, like, okay, what do we do? Right? How do we, how do we address this? And a lot of times white people in starting to learn anti racist work, learn how to do it, I want to get it right the first time, like how do I become the perfect ally? Right? How do I do this perfectly and never ever make a mistake?And that is so and of itself is a symptom of whiteness of white supremacy and
the willingness to try but get it wrong, get a little bit called out for it and then dust yourself off and say, okay, I'm gonna I'll learn, I'll do better, right, and not wallow and like getting your feelings hurt, I think is something that it has been a good learning experience for me.Willingness to accept constructive criticism as a gift really and not ... and I
respect you enough to explain that you've made a mistake is actually a really lovely thing for someone to do for you because it shows that they're invested enough in you to invite you to be better.Bastien:
Well thank you so much. What are two or 3 action steps you believe are essential
to enable others to be successful.Dr Beth:
Yeah, the chairs over there, like asking me what should I do with my life or
something like that, right? So I guess I'm going to answer this question kind of in terms of like my role as a professor. As someone who's in leadership of young adults, I think one crucial step is to help students see that the future has multiple open possibilities, and they don't have to pick the one trajectory for their lives right? This very second. And you just to help encourage an openness to the possibility that your life might take a winding road and might not be exactly what you expected it to be and that's a good thing, right?I think helping to alleviate anxiety about making those kinds of decisions and
helping to cultivate like an openness to possibility and like mystery, I guess things that's important, and then I think a crucial thing is to help people understand an opportunity, human being, right? It means like maybe in those particular tasks your work did not measure up and now you get differently.Bastien:
Thank you. Alright. What advice do you have for building relationships and trust
in an organization?Dr Beth:
I think it's important for everyone in an organization to understand that the
people you work with are more than just the self they bring to work and so respecting the other parts of their lives and the boundaries on their time that they may need and I think just an acknowledgement that everyone has multiple kind of communities of accountability, whether it's family and work and you know faith organization or whatever and make sure that everyone feels like they're respected by those boundaries and the boundaries of others. I'm giving you this feedback so that we can together figure out how to make you more effective, not because I hate you or because you're you know that this is a chance for us to kind of figure out what can be better. Yeah, those are the two things that that come to my mind.Bastien:
Okay. Alright, okay, so this is a question that I came up with. Okay, so what
would you say are some traits or qualities that are not necessarily in desirable but make it more difficult to be an effective leader?This could be from experiences you've had with other people, like traits that
other people would have that make it difficult for them to be an effective leader.Dr. Beth:
That's a good question. I think one big thing that we tend to see a lot is just
kind of an outsized ego. You know if a person is just so convinced of their own like goodness and effectiveness that they can't accept, critique or collaborate? Well I think it's a big ego, I think it's one of those things then I think 11 thing that we often see a lot as well as an inability or an unwillingness to take responsibility for when things don't go well I think that's a mark of a really good leader is that they're willing to accept responsibility when something fails and poor leader try to shift the blame another.Bastien:
Okay. What do you want? Oh gosh prepare yourself for this question. What do you
what do you want your legacy to be?Dr Beth:
What do I want? My legacy? I don't have any like grins you know thing I want on
my tombstone or anything like youBastien:
Something more personal, more subtle.
Dr Beth:
Yeah I think I would I would like for people to be able to say that. ... I
encouraged them to be curious and to not be afraid of things they don't understand and to be convinced that they are loved no matter what that is, what I would like for people to be able to say about me.Bastien:
All right well thank you so much. Alright well that was our last question
actually. Some good questions. I can't take all the credit for them. Thank you Doctor Pethel.Thank you so much for agreeing to do. This was fun and this was really
insightful. And do you have anything coming up with any organizations or anything that you're looking forward to.Everything's going well with teaching? and what classes are you teaching this semester?
Dr. Beth:
I am teaching two sections, the first year seminar and two sections of the third
year honors religion. And they're going well I think everyone's tired we're ready kind of wind down you know But they've gone well I really enjoyed it.Bastien:
All right well thank you so much. This is such a pleasure.
Dr. Beth:
Thank you so much. Have a good day, bye
Bastien:
Bye.
