Interview of Kelsey Timmerman

Transcript of kelsey timmerman interview

Victoria Gonzalez: so you first started writing about culture, economics, geography, and human relationships in 2012. And we read your book, Where Am I Giving a Class, and I came away with it with a better understanding of the cause of poverty and the inability of most to affect their life. Can you talk a bit more about your writing and how it helped you move into your current work?

Kelsey Timmerman: Uh, wow. I mean, so, um, yeah, my first book project, um, I mean, at first off, I graduated college with a degree in anthropology, and that was what, um, taught me about, um, mourning. It gave me the curiosity to want to go see the world and how other people live and gave me the tools to kind of, um, try to understand and have empathy for people and other cultures. And so I graduated with a degree in anthropology, and I saved that money I went traveling. And so that traveling, I had unique experiences from like, I wrote about “ where am I giving,” where one of the first ones was I was, uh, in Nepal, um, met a monk on the, on the airplane to Nepal, and he's like, where are you staying? And I had no plan. So I'm like, uh, I don't know. And he's like, come stay with me. And I'm like, okay. And, um, and so it was like this, a couple weeks, um, I'm just kind of really being embedded in this, in this culture that was so different. I grew up in a rural community in, uh, Ohio, and there wasn't much diversity of, of the landscape or the people. So it was just, I was just really fascinated by, um, the diversity that exists in our world, whether that be geographic, cultural, biodiversity, whatever, like it's fascinating to me. So that love for travel kind of gave way to wanting to try to process what I was experiencing and wanting, then wanting to share experiences. So that led to, uh, me starting to write about those experiences and what, uh, at first it was kind of like a me off in the world having adventures, spend the night in Castle Dracula, you know, alone in Romania, things like that. And then I had a t -shirt that it said come with me my tropical paradise.” And I thought what if I just went to wherever the shirt was made and had adventures there. And then I showed up at the garment factory after I went jungle hiking island exploring all that stuff. I showed up at the garment factory where it was made. And I met a guy named Amilcar there. And that's when it got real. That's when all of a sudden I started to see myself through his eyes. Here we were the same age, you know, vastly different opportunities and privileges, right? So I started to have to wrestle with these privileges and opportunities that I had that he did not. And I felt this weight and that weight could be guilt or it could be like responsibility. And so to me, you know, I started to step into that responsibility and think, well, what can I, how do I better understand the world that we live in and poverty and the justice and equality exists? And then what do I do about it?

Victoria Gonzalez: Yeah, that's a powerful story. And you are definitely a powerful storyteller and that comes through in your book and your work. What do you think it's important for us to humanize complex problems that seem too big to face?

Kelsey Timmerman: Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's important for us to humanize people at times, right? Because the people that are entangled in these complex problems often get dehumanized or objectified. And especially those who live in poverty. And so, like, for example, when I first started getting involved in writing about the that people make our clothes. I talked with a lot of activists and stuff. And some of them had met people who who worked in these factories and stuff. Like maybe they were brought over, but most folks hadn't, you know, they hadn't sat with them in their homes. They didn't know them. And the way that we viewed them often was this way of like feeling sorry for them. They need our help. They need our help, right? And not saying that that's not true. But when you meet people, and that's the kind of the tools that I use of just going and meeting people, learning about their lives. And you see that they're not these two dimensional, you know, characters to be felt sorry for. They're fully realized human beings, just like us with like strengths and weaknesses and family issues and senses of humor. And so it's just to hang out with people and get to know their personalities and their families and not just look at them and like, “oh wow, you, you know, you work in a garment factory and you make $25 a month and I feel sorry for you.” But to realize the strength that exists and what they want for their children and how they're working towards that, to just kind of fully show the common humanity, I think then it's easier for us to connect. And I also think it's a healthier way to begin a relationship, partnership, a way to help people is to recognize that they're not just objects to be helped, they're people.

Victoria Gonzalez: Yeah, yeah. And you've met all these different peoples that become like the leaders in their community. What have you learned through them about like different types of leadership?

Kelsey Timmerman: Oh wow. So I mean, I've learned so much from every person. I mean, every new person you meet is an opportunity to learn something that you don't know. Someone, you know, you've lived experiences that I haven't and I'm really curious. I would be, I would, I prefer to be the one asking the questions to learn about you than to, you know, I know what I know already. But so, if I stick to just like the “where am I giving” project, I mean, each one of those leaders taught me something. If I look at Scott Neeson, who was in Cambodia, who's, you know, left his seven figure year job salary to live and work around this dump in Cambodia, which I'd visited and it was like the most helpless, hopeless place I'd ever been. And yet now, because of Scott asking the question of like, how could I help this one child? And then the local people and working with the local people, which is really a critical part of it to you, not him just being there and imposing his help upon people, but working with the local community. You know, I've talked to people now that we're on the dump, the day that I visited that dump, and which seemed like hell on earth and was, but now they're in college, now they're trained to be lawyers. So like to not lose hope is a big lesson from Scott, from Umrah, Omar and Kenya, just how powerful education can be, how powerful travel can be to open her minds. She traveled to Ohio from Kenya. And like I was trying to leave Ohio, like I needed to have my mind open by leaving Ohio, and she had her mind open by coming to Ohio and going to school here. So I mean, I could go through each single, every person, and there's a lesson there for sure.

Victoria Gonzalez: for sure, yeah yeah that's great I love that

Kelsey Timmerman: um I'll add one more I could go on forever about them but I would hate not to mention Rosie uh Rosie in Kenya as well who's someone uh like Ashok who I mentioned who's in India that lives in informal settlement a slum community and yet they're doing such amazing things and that really kind of challenges the narrative that often is in the west that these these poor people need our help you know well all these poor people are are capable and the best way to help them is like to come alongside them like how how can I help you Rosie how can I help your community and support those local leaders as opposed to come in and and try to be the leader that's there for a week a month or whatever uh so that locally led uh change is so critical and that's the lesson from Ashok who started with the six dollar soccer ball and has made a huge difference so starting small and start local like Rosie and Ashok I think is also a really important lesson that we all can take to heart of how to make a difference

Victoria Gonzalez: yeah so you kind of touched on this a little bit but I'm wondering has the meaning of leadership changed for you after meaning all these different types of leaders and how has it changed

Kelsey Timmerman: yeah I mean I think there's probably I mean leadership's not my area of expertise to talk about but I think that each one of them is a different seems to be like a bit of a different type of of leader um and it would I mean I guess I could talk about each one of them in their own way um but how have they made me um you know I think some of a lot of them are are are living and among the people that they're helping and leaving right and not putting themselves above the folks they're helping I think that's a common thing and it is also takes a lot of time like it is not just a show up you know tell people what to do it is being part of the community like it's hard it's hard to be a leader if you're not in that community and living among that community and it takes time and it takes proximity it's being near people over time that leads to the the larger impact and then being when I have a network of relationships in that community to be able to make things happen and have earned the respect of that community so to me I don't know I mean I feel like there's all things that made the people I talk about and in that book “where am I giving” but just people I've met here in my own community once again as well like great great leaders .

Victoria Gonzalez: I'm curious to know have you met any unexpected leaders that have been really inspiring to you

Kelsey Timmerman: unexpected leaders oh boy that's a good question hmm. I'm trying to think unexpected leaders and specifically with these projects. I don't know I mean sometimes it's like that sometimes I think we have this idea that leaders need to be the ones that are the loudest and the most talkative and and it's often the people that are and that being the leader of the people who are thoughtful and quiet and need time to process. So I see a lot of that unexpected kind of, maybe that's an unexpected leadership 'cause we have this, just like this stereotype of what maybe a leader is, but I find those who lead by example and who are more quiet and thoughtful and not just always up in front to be great examples of leaders as well.

Victoria Gonzalez: Yeah, yeah, that's very powerful. I love hearing those stories and that's why I love the nonprofit that you co -founded “The Facing Project.” I'm really curious to know what sparked this idea or was there a specific person or experience?

Kelsey Timmerman: Yeah, I mean, it was kind of a number of different things, kind of a number of different seeds. You know, it wasn't just like one aha moment, it was a bunch of things that led to the creation of the first project. And those things included just my experience traveling around, writing about people in here and carrying their stories and how when someone let me into her life and they shared their story with me, how there was a weight to that and how that also changed me. Just being the conduit of their story, like passing through me also changed me. But also when those stories were produced, like my first book, you know, Amilcar was the guy I met outside the factory in Honduras and his story is one of immigration. He eventually comes into the United States, you know, crosses the border, pays a coyote, crosses the border and starts a life here and supports his family in a way that he couldn't if you were actually in Honduras. And when that book came out, and as it is still today, it's a pretty politically charged issue. But what I found is when I would share, I was nervous at first about the like, how are people want to come at me when I share some of these stories or do different media or things. But like, when I spoke about the stories of people, including them Amilcar , like, people couldn't argue against that, right? It was a great starting point. They people have different opinions about people who have immigrated the way that Amilcar did. But once you hear his story, like, you can't argue against why he did what he did. You know, you can see the logic and the love and the sacrifice in his story that he came here for his family. He still hasn't been on go back yet, you know, to see in Honduras. He has a life here in the United States. So the starting with stories, I think was a really critical part of that. So so for me to see that even a contentious issue like immigration, if I shared Amilcar’s story with someone who regardless, if they thought that we should, you know, have a giant wall with laser beams and sharks at the border to keep everybody out, or whether people thought we should like welcome everybody and hand them an ice cream cone and a pat on the back as they came in, regardless of where you were on that spectrum, you could hear his story and you would listen to it. And it was this, you couldn't disagree with his story. It was just his lived experience. And it was a great place to start from. So that was another part of it. Another thing was I'm at Ball State University right now. And there was a writing class called Writing in the Community, which I'm actually, I just started working sort of teaching here. And so I am going to teach that class. But like 10, 15 years ago, I was a volunteer with big brothers and big sisters. And my little little brother and I were matched with a student writer here as part of that class. And he wrote our story. And I started to think about, wow, they, it was a really cool experience. Like, how could you use writing to make a difference and connections in your community? So that was kind of another one. Okay, I have these stories that could be, bring people together, and then writing in the community. And then there's an editorial that came out in the newspaper about how many people live in poverty in months. You know, at a time I was volunteering with a group called Teamwork for Quality Living, which worked with people who were trying to work their way off poverty. And the editorial was basically, or was editorial report, but the economist was saying that only 25 % of people in months of year live in poverty, not 40 % or whatever, like the, like the census said, because it counted Ball State students. And to me, I was like, he's trying to like make it seem like it was better, you know, and I'm like, well, it's still like, that's people who live in our community. And until you know one person who lives in poverty, can you really know what it's like? You know, for folks, can you really know how to help those people? And, and that kind of goes to this bigger idea, can you really know what it's like to be an immigrant, to be transgendered, to be, have an addiction, to be unhoused, and all of these things until you know someone. And so that's where I came up with this idea of what if we started to tell the stories of people who I knew through this organization, we pair them up with a writer, and then they write the story in the first person, and then we put them in a book and do some type of, type of a performance. And so that was the very first project facing poverty. And, you know, I thought that was going to be it, maybe we do it again, that was cool. But then one of the guys I recruited as a writer, JR Jamison had experience in like, building toolkits and community engagement. And so then we started to work together on being able to help other communities do this. And it became a bigger thing.

Victoria Gonzalez: Yeah, that's simply very powerful and very inspiring. And I think that after discussing your book in class and your projects, we all came out with a desire to do something. So speaking to students in the US, how do you think you can use our resources and privileges to help those in need?

Kelsey Timmerman: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a question. First off, you have to ask that question. You have to be aware of the gifts that you have been given, the privileges and opportunities that you have. You know, some things I share in the book and I often share with students is that when you graduate, you're gonna be more educated than something like 93 % of the rest of the world. And like, your education comes with responsibility. When you graduate, you get a job, you probably make more than 50 grand a year, maybe. And you'll be the top 1 % of global earners when you do. Half the world lives on less than $2 .50 per day. So like these, it's not normal. Like any student that you're in class with, any student here at Ball State University, this is not the normal human situation in 2023 for a human being alive on planet Earth. Like, we are some of the most privileged folks ever and we have these amazing opportunities that we shouldn't just be like, "Oh, I'm so grateful, you know, #Blessed." Like, you know, it's more of a, feel the weight of those opportunities or responsibilities and those privileges and accept that they are responsibilities. And now what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do with them? And it's a question that each of us have different unique talents and life experiences. experiences. I think one of the ways that students often we, we all can make a difference is when we're ready to help people that are facing like tough times that we have been through, like similar things that we have been through. Like, that's a really natural way that puts gives us like, authority and credibility and experience and wisdom to help other people through those same things. So that's a really good place to think about when we're ready. Sometimes we're not ready yet. Sometimes something happens. And justice and inequality, a loss, whatever, you know, when you're ready to face that, I'd also encourage folks to just volunteer, like just, you know, in while you're in college, as soon as you get out, get engaged in the community by volunteering for some organization that seems to align a little bit with things that you are interested in. And then you'll start to see you'll start to face some of these issues in our community that maybe you weren't realized before, then maybe you'll start to see like, well, I'm volunteering in this capacity. But like, I know that my skills and my interests and my passions would be could be better suited if I directed them towards something like this, or I was able to do this. I mean, that's how the facing project started, right? I was writing about global poverty. And I saw local people were making the biggest difference. So I need to step up to be a local person in my own community. And then as I was volunteering, I was like, wow, I have this skill and interest in writing, how could I use this to help impact the lives and my community around this topic? So you kind of figure it out. So just to not think that you have to know right away, are you going to start your own cause your own organization, just kind of your role right now is to learn about things you're interested in have a lot of different experiences in your community, and you'll figure it out.

Victoria Gonzalez: Yeah, that's good advice , but, and on that note, does the facing project like take volunteers or like remote like interns or anything like that?

Kelsey Timmerman: Yeah, we do at times. So right now we're a staff of one, right? So JR, my co -founder, he's our full -time and staff member. I think we actually have like some part -time folks too. And I am like a, you know, I'm still involved, but not like the day -to -day operation. So that is a better,if anyone's interested, you could email JR at facingproject .com. And I think there might be a sign -up thing on the website too, but you know, sometimes with a small organization, it can be hard at times to figure out what to do with the volunteer. And really the best way to get involved is if you go to the website, I mean, feel free. Like if you're interested in someone listen to this, like email JR, see what's going on, or send them an out through the website. But also the best way to get involved with Facing Project is to find someone that who you want to share their story, you want to collaborate on their story and ask them if they wanna partner up with you on this. And the website, I think it says maybe get involved and you can click single stories. There's like a single story thing where you then learn like the 10 steps of writing a Facing Project story and then you meet with the person, you produce the rough draft in the first person in their words, and then you send it into the Facing Project. So that is like, I feel like the best, even if you're thinking about volunteering, like maybe write a Facing Project story first so you can experience what that's like. I think it puts you in a better position to volunteer than as well.

Victoria Gonzalez: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm definitely interested in that. I'm sure a lot of the students in my class would love to to and unfortunately, we're running out of time but I just wanted to thank you. Thank you so much for talking, and it's been super great and interesting to listen.

Kelsey Timmerman: Yeah, thanks for the great questions thanks for, you know, reading reading my books and if you're a professor wants me to engage with your with your class through zoom sometime like feel free to let them know and I'd be happy to zoom in and do Q&A with with the class and Thanks for the thoughtful questions.