Interview of Gatluak Thach

Akimoto: So, the first question I have for you is what particular experiences before NICE do you think most shaped you as the leader you are today?

Dr. Thach: Thank you so much, first of all, it is an honor. It is an honor to be with you, I love to support students, I know what it takes to be able to have somebody that can actually share their leadership perspective with you on your project. With that being said, I will say I am, I have been shaped by a number of events. One of them had to do with my childhood upbringing. I was a young child who joined the military, when I was a very young person. And that, I learned some tricks, I learnt some strategy, how to work together with other people, how to collaborate, how to team together. I think that had a significant role in my life. I also was one of the several before I joined the military, I was one of the six boy(s) without a mum. When we were in the village, we were really live(ing), where we had to support one another, we had to contribute (it) to our lifestyle of living. Though we were kids, and sometimes, I had to, you know, do things that sometimes were considered to be mistakes. Until I would learn from some of those to share who we became.

Akimoto: Thank you very much. So my next question is once you recognize the diverse needs of immigrants in your Nashville community, I think that’s how you started NICE, were you called into leadership or did you seek the position? Did you want to be a leader or did the situation around you kind of make you a leader?

Dr. Thach: I think the situation around me made me a leader. If you look into the story of NICE, I did not decide, I did not begin the organization, (it wasn’t that I wanted to) start the organization. I was born into the need(s) of my family. I went to start with my own wife, trying to teach her. And then there, I saw that it was not only her needing the support, there were also others (with) needing. And then I decided, I decided to reach out to the community member(s) so that we can, we can be able to address the need. I think I just managed to the leadership because of the fact that there was nobody else that could actually do it. And then I saw myself to that vision and that’s how it became.

Akimoto: Thank you very much. So, in general, what does leadership mean to you and how would you characterize or how would you explain your leadership style?

Dr. Thach: I think leadership is all about serving. It is all about influencing other people to serve. It is all about collaborating with people, it’s all about values to people that you serve. It is all about empowering the people that work with you. It is a broader term, but I actually look at leadership as an action. And actions that happen(s) on creating results. It has to solve problems. It has to galvanize the efforts of so many people. It has to come to one thing, that only one person can see, a few people can see, and poor in that aspect, and let everybody see it. And direct them. And then you don’t have to be in a lot of, a lot of the time(s) you don’t have to be an adapt(ation) to people, and you might be in the middle, even behind, as long as you have the people that can see what you see and follow you for it. That’s exactly how I feel leadership is.

Akimoto: Thank you very much, okay. As a leader, some people think that it is important to delegate, to lead a certain amount of people. Do you feel it is important to delegate? And when or how do you delegate?

Dr. Thach: I think the important aspect of delegation is delegation with the intention of result. Delegation, in another sense, address issues, address empowerment, and also address trust issues. Because when you (are) delegating assignment to an individual, you have to make sure that the person who you delegate the task to will deliver or communicate to you the outcome of that. You have to have a way to actually check out whether what you have delegated is actually being delivered. It is your job as a leader. I think the leader, the effective leader, should also find a way to empower others. That’s how you succeed (with) other individuals. Leaders, you are needing people, you are needing people, so you have to delegate the assignment, you don’t have to do everything yourself. You cannot be a leader as well as a technical aspect manager, in fact you have to have some humanitarian responsibility as a leader but also you have to trust your technical team and others, you lead a team to also take some judges. A technical can actually be able to deliver.

Akimoto: Okay, thank you very much. So my next question is, like you mentioned, leaders help to turn ideas into action and empower others. But what are some specific steps that you have to (take to) accomplish this?

Dr. Thach: If you look into the story of NICE, we are where we are today because others have done the work that build that. You know, we create programs, we create programs through ideas, to retain (what) is needed within the community. And we put someone in charge of that, and we told the person to do this and communicate the outcome on either weekly or by weekly or by monthly or by monthly or quarterly basis. And where we are, is that on such, to see whether we are actually going again from the decided to go out. That is some of the aspects, some of the, you know, we create settlement program(s) where we pick someone in charge of putting together a team, put(ting) together the policies and procedures, technical need(s), and our core services that has to be done. And whenever there is any change, they also have to communicate the change, whenever there is an obstacle on their way, they also have to communicate that. That is done by the director who (is) also responsible for overseeing the manager but also working with kids’ managers to actually deliver again those kinds of things. So those are some of the examples of some other things that we have done to improve and will continue to empower our team and to delegate.

Akimoto: Thank you very much. So, my next question is as a leader, how do you stay connected to the people you serve? Because I feel like sometimes when you are in the leadership position, some leaders have difficulties staying connected with the people they serve but do you have any tips on how to stay connected with the people you serve?

Dr. Thach: We are, I’m personally very connected to the community, because I’m within the community that I serve. So I am there on weekends, attending the church services, attend(ing) some community events, attending some of the things I attend some vocation, and there. We also pass(ed) communication, so women or maybe a doctor who had to be chair. I lost my timeline and social media is also up to date with so many things that we have to check with the team, that aspect. We also, I also meet with clients, when they are coming to receive the services, I’m, one of my core strategies is to attending some of the vocational, within the organization, orientations, when they are providing clients services, I would stop there and talk to the, you know, the staff member who are doing the work but also talk to the clients that they are working with. So, I believe that if you are a leader and you are not with people you are a lender, you are not a leader. A leader has to be connected to your people, that you work with, but also to the people, you know, all the stakeholders that are part of what you do. You have to reach out to them and be relevant and I think it’s critically important for the success of many leaders.

Akimoto: Thank you very much. My next question is so when interacting with immigrants, intercultural communication is, I think is a very big key, and as we are all global citizens in the 21st century, what advice do you have for all of us to have effective intercultural communication? I think there are some barriers, so what advice would you give to all of us?

Dr. Thach: I think every human need(s) to be respect(ed). I think the, I would not expect anyone to learn everybody’s culture, when you meet the, but you have to respect the people that you meet with. You have to look at them as humans, not as data or (a) typical type of human being, just other people that happen to be speaking a different language or may have a different look from you. But they are, they are typical, if you live in Tennessee, they are Tennessian. They are a resident of here, they might be in need of something today but tomorrow they’ll probably be the one to provide what needed to be provided to the other group of people. You just have to show (the) respect. You have to just start to learn how do you greet them, their culture. Learn how to, how do you eat their food. How to, how do you associate yourself, what is it that they like and what is that they don’t. And how do you involve them in whatever you do. So if you show respect to them, if you show understanding to them, and you value them, then that’s how they will be able to work together with you and provide you (with) the kind of technical knowledge that you need to know about their culture.

Akimoto: I agree with your point. I used to live in Malaysia for five years and Malaysia is a very intercultural community and just being respectful of others and willing to communicate and engage with other cultures is I think is, as you mentioned, a big key in intercultural communication. My next question for you is NICE has grown into a very big organization in Middle Tennessee. I would like to know what were some challenges or major obstacles that you faced within this journey and how did you overcome them?

Dr. Thach: A lot of challenges and our ways to be where we are today and continue to be where we want to go. You know, running a non-profit organization in a different society, different culture, different last names and first names, different looks on time, it is, you have to have the courage, you have to have understanding. Every time we want(ed) to make a change, we feel the resistance. We feel the resistance because there is a fear that it would not allow us to continue doing what we wanted to do. A fear that would sometimes whenever have a tremendous impact on (to) the operation. And that can either (can) be when we were trying to embrace every culture that wanted to come to our clients. When they come to our center, we have people who want(ed) not to allow a certain group of people to be part of us, and I resent that. It became an issue. This time when we were trying to change the name which used to be called Sudanese Community Women Services Center and then we had people bored and some of the staff members who wanted to change the community name. Although I was thinking that it is a good name, (but) look at how many people (that) are coming to our door. And we just look at the name and it make(s) everybody feel like they belong(ed) here. And they just wanted to be part of here. So, it was difficult and then we had to overcome that. And then we came to when we were trying to do (an) assortment services. Trying to do an assortment (of) services that typically it is a program that is only done by the faith-based, United States faith-based, contacting (with) the state government. We are not a faith-based organization. We are a community-based organization. And we don’t have the background of (the) religious aspect and the denomination aspect. But we wanted to serve our people. That was not easy, with this, with some people within this date, it was not easy with some people in our board, it was not easy with some people even around the closeness. It was difficult, and we overcame that. And then again come to time when we wanted to do an extension to another place within the state, it would be in Tennessee. We looked in Gallatin, I tried to do assortment services in Gallatin, it was also another challenge. So every time you try(ing) to do a new thing, every time we’re trying to do a new thing, something else comes up. And I tend to not be hard headed in the result but I'm (a) strategically visionary person in myself. I try to make sure people see the big picture. Make sure they understand why we are trying to do this. And make sure they understand the chain. Make sure the chain impact would not be as significant as they would see. The rest would be likely smaller. I mean minorities are smaller than what they would think. And I will have to, but, even doing that to them, there’s no, that’s no easy for people to take it and to press that. So that was that. Right now when we were faced with COVID, it was terrible. We had to readjust how we deliver our services, we were also faced with the change in the regime, attendants of the team before the COVID was also very difficult because they were, we were cut to where our services was almost for to the lowest ever in the American story. It was very difficult for clients that were expecting the parents to come. The community member became, it was not easy. So, we overcame that (by) naturally as well as the morality, you know, of course, some of the others, when someone kind would deter, you know, say they were opposing a certain group of people and they can prevent (them) from coming here. There was a time for some of that we had to deal with that psychological impact on that and how everything goes that could lead to. So I, there’s nothing easy, there’s nothing easy but what I try to also do, we try to work together as a team, try to. I have a theory of collaborative leadership that if everybody knows that, if everybody’s proud of that, if everybody’s voice is heard, when I make a decision it is already easy for people to know where I stand, I just not surprising you, I already walk the road and now it is up to you to either go in or maybe stand on the sidelines and decide to follow, or not follow, that’s how this is.

Akimoto: Thank you very much. My next question is, success is one of the things that leaders try to achieve, but how do you define and how do you measure success?

Dr. Thach: Success. I measure success in terms of clients that we serve. I also measure success in the support of my team member(s) that deliver the support services. Let’s take a client for example. We don’t call them clients, we call them community members but imagine somebody who has lived in a refugee camp for over, for all of their lifetime, never done anything. Now they happen to be in this country, they don’t speak the language, they don’t have any relatives, there are no culture, there don’t know the weather, they don’t even know how to move around. We receive them from the airport, we place them where they have to live, we enroll the children to school, we take them to orientation, we enroll, we find jobs for them that they can be able to take, we put them in the classes. Now they can speak (the) English, they can write, they can have a job to support their family, they can even drive a car, they even bought a home. How do you describe that? It is success because if we haven’t done what we were supposed to do, it would certainly not get anywhere. It certainly would not get anywhere. They can be right now on the streets. And if they end up on the streets, it would be a failure on us because (if) we would taken, we could’ve done better to improve family life and not to make them live the way they used to live in the refugee camp. Now, who will succeed now? The family succeed(s), and who else succeeds? The team member who actually helped those people going through all this tremendous process. They do this together with a community support team. The community, the community support team are I would just say they intern, volunteer, they co-sponsor. All the other people who are turning the team together with the staff to make that happen, they are part of this success. And what we do, we just celebrate(d) this success. And we call it that.

Akimoto: Thank you very much. I have one final question for you and it is what do you want your legacy to be?

Dr. Thach: I want to see this institution continue providing (the) empowerment to people in Tennessee and people in beyond. I want it to be a place where focus is given to the young people, focus is given to people who may have not had the opportunity from the very beginning. But as I said earlier, I came to this country without even knowing how to say a word in English, did not even go to school, but this country opened doors for me. I came here, got to my work for that, with the support of a few, and today I’m looking into if I did it, why not anybody else? Who’s endeavor? But it would take people, it would take encouragement, it would take (a) support for a(n) institution like NICE to continue providing that hope for the very few. Because when we came here there was no program that does what we do now in Nashville. There were some other agencies but they don’t really, they never did what we are doing. They never provided clients to be like (now) we are now considered to be the No.1 or No.2 in our country in adult education program(s). We are now the largest (several) program in Nashville in Middle Tennessee. We are not just want(ed) to be just called one of the, or one or two or three of or that, we just want to be No.1 of the empowerment place where people will just want to come and (be) proud to be a part of us and empower the community. And if that is not enough, then I would just say what else would be enough? Because I think the goal is we have to make it, we have to make it where we want it to be, that is human beings have to be in peace, that would empower (those) who did not get in. They (have) still have (a) chance to get it and would be our work to do that. That could be a legacy I could tell.

Akimoto: Thank you so much, these are all the questions and thank you so much for your time. I will be ending this Zoom too, soon but I hope to stay connected and I hope you have a great rest of day and a great rest of week. Thank you so much of your time. Thank you.