Interview of Joe McMahon

Fr. Joe Interview Transcript

[Caroline Coey]

So, it is November 3rd at 1 pm and I am at Holy Family Catholic Church with Father Joe McMahon in Brentwood, Tennessee. Father Joe is the pastor of Holy Family Catholic Church. So, thank you for your willingness to interview today.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Of course.

[Caroline Coey]

Can you tell me a little bit about who you are, your position and how long you've been a priest?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

I am the pastor of Holy Family here in Brentwood., and actually I've been pastor for 10 years. I came in 2013, and so at the end of September that was really marked 10 years and it's been a great 10 years. It's been a real gift to me to be with this community of faith here at Holy Family.

[Caroline Coey]

What part of your personal biography or background led you to the position you have?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Well, first of all, I'm a priest of the Diocese of Nashville, and probably the I grew up in a strong Catholic family at home in Chattanooga and then my parents were very faith-filled people. So, that was the beginning of my vocation. We had a great parish community growing up in in Chattanooga: Our Lady of Perpetual Help. The pastor was Monsignor Daniel Niedergeses who later became Bishop of Nashville. So, he was a person of deep faith and deep love, so he was very inspirational to me. Another pastor in our parish community here in Nashville, Father Mike Johnston was also a mentor for me. He taught me in high school, was a mentor, and has been one ever since. So, they've played key roles and yeah. Discernment and choice of a priesthood, and also too, in terms of leadership: in terms of integrity, in terms of genuine care for other people, and in terms of faith, in terms of staying close to the Lord and letting Him guide me and use my gifts. You know, and in accordance with, with his guidance.

[Caroline Coey]

That's great. Oh, we're glad to have you for sure.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Thank you.

[Caroline Coey]

Do you think you were called into leadership, or did you seek it because of convictions you had?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Good question.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

When I was a sophomore in high school, I was invited to a youth leadership workshop sponsored by the Diocese of Nashville. And I think it was at that time that I discovered, experientially, that I had leadership. And it's important for me also to, uh, to recognize that I did that, uh, I made that discovery in the context of a faith experience sponsored by our church. And that's always been a reference point for me. And so, I believe the Lord did give me gifts for leadership, and in my priesthood, He’s given me opportunities for leadership. And the way, it works in our church, is the bishop calls and asks for a meeting. He simply said Joe, “Would you go to Holy Family as a pastor?” and I said yes. And I truly believe, I think you see there, the call, it comes through the bishop, but the but the real call comes from the Lord. And I truly believe, with all my heart, in my assignments that I've, where I've served, that if the Lord gives the call, the Lord gives the grace. He gives me what I need to serve, and that's been my experience over the course of my 39 years of priesthood in the various assignments I’ve had and roles of leadership. And there’s some peace in that too, that if the Lord does ask me, through the leadership of our Church, to take a position of leadership, then He'll give me what I need. He’ll be there for me, and He always has been.

[Caroline Coey]

Who do you find are the most rewarding people to work with?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Great question. Wow, that's a great question. Um, you know, without being, I don't want to be falsely pietistical, but it's the people the Lord sends me. It's the ones who want to meet. I really try. I tell my staff that because you do what you do so well, you give me the gift of being pastor and not CEO of Holy Family. And so, I really feel like, whoever's in front of me, whoever is in need, that I want to be present for them and help them to the best of my ability. And so it really is, it's, it's a, that's what would be my answer. That would be my answer.

[Caroline Coey]

Ok.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Especially, I think, to focus it those who are hurting, those who've lost a loved one, those who are in a life crisis, those who are experiencing difficulties. It's a gift to be with them but it's a gift to be with whoever's in front of me.

[Caroline Coey]

That's great. I like that answer too. I know your schedule changes from day to day, but what would you say a typical day in the life for you looks like?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

I'm up at 5, and the first thing I do in the morning is, we have a chapel in the house where we live across the street. And for us, the scriptures, our core but also, too, the, we believe the presence of the Lord in the blessed sacrament. So, we have a tabernacle in our chapel with the Lord's presence, and that's where I begin today with the Lord in prayer for an hour, perhaps a little longer. But I, I start my day right there and that's the foundation of my day. And then, the starting gun goes off. Then I have mass, and then, interesting, I mean, appointments, scheduled events throughout the day. And Betty Lou Burnett is my admin and she's my, I say she's my right hand and my left hand, that makes me, helps me to be where I need to be. So yes, but it would be appointments, it would be parish planning events, discussions with staff, lunches with others. The gift of this life is that it's so multifaceted. Truly. And then meetings, of course, with parish council that we have once a month and other key meetings. But it's all, it's a little bit of everything and I like that.

[Caroline Coey]

Yeah.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

We, as parish priests, we basically, do it all.

[Caroline Coey]

Is there a typical way you end your day? Do you end your day in prayer as well?

[Fr Joe McMahon]

Yes, yes, yes. And, I try to get some, some down time for reflection and time for prayer at the end of the day. And I just got a new puppy. Maggie, who's a miniature golden doodle and she helps me relax. She loves to play. So, that's some, you know, that's some healthy downtime. And so, she's been good. And she's also our parish dog. She stays here in the office.

[Caroline Coey]

I have seen her about before. So, yeah.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Yes.

[Caroline Coey]

We might’ve touched on it a little bit earlier, but what or who has been your greatest influence? I know you talked about other mentors you have in the past.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Yeah, I've had many. I've had many mentors. Archbishop Daniel B Klein who was Archbishop of Memphis, but before that he was the director of our seminary. He was a keen mentor for me in making the transition from seminary into ordained priesthood to active ministry. Fr. Mike Johnson again, continues to be a mentor for me. I first knew him when I was 14 and he was 26. Now, I'm 66 and he's 78.

[Caroline Coey]

A long time.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

A long time. And they've mentored me by guidance primarily by the way they've lived their life, their lives as people of deep prayer and the service of others.

[Caroline Coey]

My next question is. What does leadership mean to you? Or you can answer it another way. What do you feel are the best characteristics of a great leader?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

The first hallmark of leadership is service. I truly believe in the model of servant leadership. It's not about me. It's not about titles for me or positions of authority. It's about being a servant leader. I'm there to help others. And what I want here at Holy Family and what we've worked at so hard is we want best practices here to help our people in ministry and then to be able to share what we have with others. But I tell the younger priests that have served with me, it's all about caring for your people. It's about caring for your people. That's what matters. In a sense too, in our church, for priests, the only exclusive relationship I can have is with Christ in prayer, in a spiritual relationship. But as pastor. I'm in a sense, committed to the community; married to the community. And there's a real bond there that's real. The people of Holy Family are my people, and I do everything I can to care for them, care for you all to the best of my ability. And there's a real, there's something very precious about that in our Catholic tradition. That's it's not just theoretical, but very, very real. And I tell the young guys that the fullness of priesthood in our tradition would be Bishop theologically, but practically speaking, the fullness of our priesthood as diocesan priests, priest of the Diocese of Nashville is the role of pastor. That’s as real as it gets with your people and it’s a source of tremendous joy and fulfillment. But it's all about servant leadership. It's not about, it's not about me. It's not about achievements on my part but allowing the Lord to lead me in the projects that I undertake for the good of others.

[Caroline Coey]

How would you characterize your leadership style? I guess maybe you kind of already answered that.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Well, I would say, in two ways. One, I lead by collaboration and consultation with my staff and with others. And as pastor, I make the tough calls and I execute tough calls. I don't put those off on other people. So that's important. But I only make those calls, difficult ones, after much consultation and collaboration. Does that help?

[Caroline Coey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caroline Coey]

As Harry Truman says, “The buck stops here.”

[Caroline Coey]

What experiences have shaped you the most as a leader?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

I think one would be that I lost my father when I was 16 and I was close to him, and it really took me to a deeper level of life and asking what was life about. My father was not wealthy but there were three characteristics of his life. One, he was a person of deep love for our family, he was a person of deep faith, and a person of deep integrity; truthfulness, and that has been key for me in terms of my leadership positions. Wherever I've been, that's been core. I had some great leadership opportunities. I was elected president of the student body at Notre Dame High School in Chattanooga senior year. I was elected president of the student body at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga senior year there in college. Those were key experiences and learning experiences and really learning how to work with others and how important it is to work with others in a spirit of respect. Not to use other people to get what I want, right, but to really respect other people, work with other people for our common good. So those would be two. Another experience I had was I was a runner at a corporate law firm in Chattanooga. I took a year out after my senior year in college and that was a profound learning experience for me. Everything you did was important, and I learned what I, and I wanted to see firsthand what the law, the practice of the law was like. And I think I learned in those experiences, I learned one, as president of the student body in Chattanooga. We did some political stuff, you know, and I thought or legislative stuff and I thought, I really don't want to do that. That's not my calling. And then with the law, it wasn't my calling. I never opened a law book, and, and I went back. I'd gone my first 2 years of college at the seminary, and I finished at the University of Tennessee in Chattanooga. And then, after my time as a runner in the law firm, to theology, to graduate school of spiritual formation. So, and there too, that Father, Fr. Daniel D. Klein at that time, was the rector and I watched him and his leadership and how he handled things, and he was a real role model in collaborative leadership, but also too, he was he was strong, and he had to make a hard decision, he made it.

[Caroline Coey]

Yeah.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

I got to see that up close.

[Caroline Coey]

Yeah, that's good experience to get.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

It's very good experience.

[Caroline Coey]

So, everybody has strengths and weaknesses. What would you say are your professional strengths and weaknesses?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Great question. I think fear is a weakness for me and I've learned to really open that to the Lord and His strength; His grace to help me: passage and scripture. Fear is useless. What's needed is trust. The Lord gives me that grace. He's even assured me, “I'll give you what you need in each situation”. So, I think that that fear can be, it has the potential to lock me and maybe even paralyze in the past more so than in the present. And I talk it out now and, but I think that that can. I think my greatest gift the Lord has given me is the gift of my faith and my spirituality. And that, and that my faith in my prayer is, that I have a very deep faith and a deep prayer life, and it's very much connected to my daily ministry, to the decisions I make to those with whom I work, and also those who have served. So, I think that would be the greatest gift the Lord's given make and that I bring to my leadership: is a conscious presence of the Lord as a loving God who only wants to love us and help us, not shame us or make us feel less than. But who is all powerful and, and I am not. And I think too, with to acknowledge when I make mistakes, own them and make whatever amends I need to make. Nobody has it all together. Certainly not me and to know that truth, to know that truth. I think this is a truthfulness and a genuine care for others. And also too, being very respectful of other people. Believe that respect is a hallmark. Of the Lord's law. If I'm walking, you know, in His shadow so to speak, I want it to be a hallmark in my life, in dealing with others, with those I work with and those I serve.

[Caroline Coey]

It’s great that you’re, you know, aware of your strengths and weaknesses because I know not everybody is and is not willing to express them.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

No, I think that's all. And it's in my weaknesses too, in new ways that the Lord can work. That in the fear, it's an invitation to trust Him more and to trust others more as opposed to isolating and becoming closed.

[Caroline Coey]

How have you learned from obstacles or challenges faced?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Wow, you got great questions.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

In my different assignments, it’s not my way or the highway. And it's in the fear that can lead me to try to do it all myself and that never works. Never works. I was associate principal at Father Ryan for several years, and it was a very challenging assignment. Major decisions, it was, I was involved in every facet of the life of the school and leadership and including dismissal of students, and key decisions for the school. And there was a lot of fear, and the Lord helped me to work through it over the course of my time, where I really came to enjoy that assignment and to work well with others in a collaborative way and a respectful one. So that was a profound learning experience. Becoming pastor. I was first pastor of St. Josephs in Madison, and I just. It's amazing sometimes your fears. Of all my duties as a priest, I spent most of them, most of my ministry in school work. I taught at Father Ryan, I was associate principal, I was vocation director, I was in charge of youth ministry for the diocese. I just didn't know if I wanted to be a pastor and sometimes, the things you fear the most could be the most meaningful and that's been the case for me. And St. Joseph first, and then now, here at Holy Family. The Lord uses all my gifts and my weaknesses to carry out the mission. And I've also gotten help for my issues over the years. Sought help in terms of counseling, and that's been that's been very key for me and healing, you know. We, we all carry our wounds with us from our growing up years, but to get healing for those, so I could become a wounded healer rather than one who's hurt, that continues to hurt others out of that unhealed hurt.

[Caroline Coey]

I think you again, probably touched on this earlier. Do you feel it is important to delegate? If so, why? And then, when and how do you delegate?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

It's essential. It's essential. If a leader does not, if I don't delegate, I'll lose my mind. But at the same time, I still have to check in with the person to whom I've delegated. I can't just turn it over and let it go. How's it going? What's up? You know, you know it's that again, the collaboration there, this mutual respect. But yes, you hire good people and you let good people, you know, you don't micromanage. I don't micromanage. I laugh, I said of all my folks, micromanaging is not one of, you know, I'm not breathing down their necks wondering, “What are you doing today?”, but trusting others. And yes, you know, we have key positions here. We have a large parish community. We have, with God's grace, we have over 3,000 families here and our ministries are vast, and, and very, very important. And I have to have good people, and I, we do have great people here on our staff. And so, that's the first step, and then you let them, let them do their work, but check in. Check in. Does that answer your question?

[Caroline Coey]

Yeah. I think that's a good balance, like, letting them do their own work but still checking in and maintaining that communication.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Right. That's right, and that's where, you know, the, in a sense, the staff is like a microcosm of the parish. And how we work together and pray together is very core to the parish and the life of the parish.

[Caroline Coey]

So, leaders help to turn ideas into action and empower others. How do you accomplish this?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Well, concretely, Todd Feverly, one of our parishioners who's, one of his assets of many is demography and he came to me some years ago and said, Fr Joe, he said, “The population for Williamson County is going to explode and it's really going to increase tremendously. And a portion of that population is going to be Catholic people. So, we had to make a decision. I didn't want a mega-church in our church. So, we started looking for a property for a new parish, and with the with enough property for a potential school. And we looked in Nolensville, which is eastern Williamson County. And I'm not a real estate person. All I knew was what we needed and but got good people on board. And with God's grace, and He did, He found the property for us. We looked everywhere else. And in this one piece of property came back on the market. 166-acre horse farm, just south, between Nolensville and 840, and we were able to afford it. Prices went through the roof like they had in Brentwood. And then to start the parish of Mother Teresa of Calcutta. And now they have over 600 families. And now also too, the the school. A pre-K through 8, with potentially, hopefully, we want to have a 9-12: St. Michael, the Archangel. So many people, the Lord guiding us, talk about teamwork. And I was just a member of the team. Just a member of the team, but that's been exciting because with the parish, is new life, and so too, with a school. To give those kids an experience of knowing their love of the Lord simply for who they are from the moment they walk in that school. It's important to me.

[Caroline Coey]

How do you measure success and how do you learn from failure?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Success is not, for me, achievements. There was a time in my life when it was, but it's really measured in doing good for others; being a part of that. Being a part of doing good for others. But failure, I think I have to be careful that failure and the fear of failure is not a setup for shame, but that it's a learning experience. And it's very interesting too. I say this because it's true. In working on the St. Michael the Archangel project with the school. Raising money and this challenge and that challenge and the next challenge. Whenever we hit the wall, the Lord showed us a way through. And many times through other people, but whenever He wanted that, I mean I just sense that, you know, at every turn. Not forcing it, not forcing it, but letting Him lead and guide the process. But at the same time, that means using every gift I've got to do my part to make it work. It's not like I'm sitting in the chair waiting for the Lord to make it all work, so I don't want to come across like that. No, no, no. I have a little plaque in my study at my house, and it says, “Lord, help me to remember nothing's going to come up today that the two of us can't handle.” And that's and bringing others involved too; involving others in that as well. So, I think failure, obstacles, dealing with obstacles, I pray for those to be learning experiences for me, not fault finding and shaming experiences. And they're all part of life, and maybe I'm going down the wrong path, you know? You know, when I, when it's not working out, you know, maybe I'm missing something. You know, that's that, you know, okay. Rather than, no, this is what I'm supposed to be doing and I'm going to do it and I'm going to. What do they say? Be careful about self will run riot in a righteous cause. You can do a lot of harm. And a wise person also told me, Fr. Joe, “When you're a bowl in a china shop, you end up paying for a lot of china.” I hope I pay for less china today, then I have in my past.

[Caroline Coey]

I like that.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

I hope I pay for less than what I did when I was younger!

[Caroline Coey]

What do you think are two to three action steps you believe are essential to enabling the success of other people?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Prayer, respect, genuine care for others, wanting the good of that person, and also respecting that person's independence. It's all about invitation. It's not about making another person do something. The longer I live, I say I've gotten out of the business telling people what to do because they never did it and I’d get my feelings hurt. There's a serenity prayer. “God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.” There's a modified form of that. “God, grant me the serenity to accept those I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and to know that one is me.” I'm the only person I can change.

[Caroline Coey]

Right.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

I can't change another human being, and I got my hands full, you know, letting the Lord guide me in changing myself. What can I learn from this situation? What can I learn from this relationship, as opposed to, “How can I make another person do something?” Is that? I think it's true. It's that sense of respect and some say, “what's the hardest part of your vocation?” It's trying to help someone and not be able to and accept that.

[Caroline Coey]

Yeah, I can imagine as a priest, that can be difficult.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

I trust that they’re ultimately in the Lord’s hands as I am.

[Caroline Coey]

What advice do you have for building relationships and trust in the church organization like Holy Family?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

One, living in an authentic life as a priest and as a person. To again, you're hearing this but it's true, being respectful of others but also seeing the gifts of other people and the opportunities for those gifts can help the community. And three, never using another person and being conscious that the first vocation that our parishioners have is their family commitment. And so, whatever that they're asked to do for the community of the parish has to complement that, not take the place of it. I have to be very careful. I don't take parents away from their kids. That’s just one example, but you understand what I'm saying. Yeah, no when it helps their family life, what they do in the parish helps their family life, not takes them away from it. It's very important to protect that special bond. Is that?

[Caroline Coey]

Yeah.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

It's all about respect and genuine love of others and being vulnerable with others. And then, letting them be vulnerable with me in terms of the shared journey down the road that we have.

[Caroline Coey]

Which of Jesus's teachings has shaped you the most as a leader in the church and why?

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

Matthew 25: I was hungry, I was thirsty, I was a stranger, I was sick, I was imprisoned, and You cared for me. I think that's the final exam of life. I've had funerals for those who face that exam. I just want to pass it. Also too, the Sermon on the Mount, and not just the beatitudes, but the several chapters of Matthew. Love your enemies, do good for them, pray for them, I think that’s core that Jesus really opens his heart in in His sermon on the mount. And I think He's, the whole nonviolence there too of not responding in kind. Not to, eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, and He’s serious about that. It's a challenging teaching. He lived it, but He can also give us the grace too. Those would be two. And then the last supper discourses, you know, as He's in John's gospel where He's sharing his heart with His Apostles before His Passion and death. Those would be the passages. Those are my go-to passages for a living my life as a Christian and as a priest. And I don't claim to live it that way. I live it a little bit more, a little bit more.

[Caroline Coey]

Yeah, the striving to live it more each day.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

And it's like osmosis, it’s soaking it in, as opposed to willing it. Let it in. Let those, the spirit of Jesus in. I'm so inspired by the civil rights movement in our own country and the nonviolence that they truly embraced. I read a biography of John Lewis and maybe his autobiography. But they were truly taught to actively pray for and love the person that was presently beating them. And John Lewis, I mean, he had several concussions, you know, over the course of his marches; his experiences in them in the civil rights movement during the ‘60s; integrating the South. But those beliefs for them were grounded in the Gospels.

[Caroline Coey]

Yeah, I think that's really inspirational too. I don’t know if I could do that.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

But some have. Some have. It can be done, but it comes from prayer, it comes from deep prayer, and it comes from closeness and trust in Christ and even dependence on Christ. It's more than just, I set up in my life, I've always believed in Christ. I haven't always trusted Him, but now I trust Him more and more, and hopefully, I do from trust to dependence.

[Caroline Coey]

My final question for you is, what do you want your legacy to be?

[Caroline Coey]

That Joe McMahon was an authentic priest and pastor. He was close to the Lord. He loved others and tried his best to do the right thing with the grace of Christ; relying on the grace of Christ.

[Caroline Coey]

I like it.

[Caroline Coey]

Oh, that's all the questions I have for you. I want to thank you for doing this today.

[Fr. Joe McMahon]

My pleasure. My pleasure. I hope it’s been helpful.

[Caroline Coey]

Yeah, I really appreciate it.