Interview of Annika Van Nest Baylis

Prickly Pear Interview Transcription

Interview with Annika Van Nest Baylis, Founder & CEO of Prickly Pear Coffee Co.

November 9th from

to

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Zoom Meeting

Jordan: First, I just wanted to say thanks for doing this. I know that you have a really busy day, so I just feel so grateful that you’re taking the time to do this.

Annika: Of course.

Jordan: Yeah, I was thinking this morning – I’ve been working at Prickly for almost seven months now – which is wild – but I realized that there’s only so much that I know about the inspiration and how it all came to fruition, so we’re going to talk about that today. But I was going to start by just giving some context to the listeners about who you are and what you’re about.

Annika: Great.

Jordan: So, Annika is a small business owner of Prickly Pear Coffee Company. Prickly Pear started out as a mobile espresso cart and catering business in the wake of Covid-19 and has since grown into a successful brick and mortar espresso bar in downtown Nashville. Just recently, she signed on a second location in the Gulch and has hopes of it becoming a go-to spot for coffee and community in the heart of Music City. That’s a very brief synopsis of the business –

Annika: Love that! Did you write that?

Jordan: [Jordan laughs] Yeah.

Annika: I love that. Oh my goodness, can you do all my press releases? That’s amazing.

Jordan: [Jordan continues laughing] Honestly yeah. But okay, so with that said, I want to hear a little more about the inspiration behind Prickly Pear and what part of your story or background instilled the desire in you to make this dream a reality?

Annika: Yeah…okay I think a big part that I don’t actually talk about often that may be interesting in this context is – so I was a competitive figure skater growing up – which is funny down here because people are like “that is so weird”, but I grew up in Minnesota…it’s not weird. [Annika laughs]

Jordan: Yeah, I guess it’s the norm there.

Annika: Yeah you figure skated or you played hockey. And so I was a figure skater – I loved it, it was great. But I actually got hurt when I was in the eighth grade. I fractured my back, and so after that, there were a lot of sports I could no longer do. I was just in a long recovery process. But the reason I bring that up is because, while most kids in middle school and high school are all about those sports, I got a job. I got my first job at thirteen. She hired me without knowing how old I was, and I have been working ever since. So, I think a lot of the desire to start my own business was because I got into business at a very young age. It’s been cool – I have a background in literally every industry. I worked at a general store, a salon, a jewelry store, I managed a spray tan company – all these different random things. I absolutely love working. At that age, I loved having the independence of having my own money. I felt like I fit in a lot better with older people, and being in a work environment, I got to learn from them. Those were such formative years, so I was just soaking things up like a sponge. For me, I was enthralled with work and the business world. I also had a very unhealthy coffee addiction. I spent money on two things growing up and they were country music and coffee. My sweet parents gave me so much freedom in that I could go to any concert – I could drink all the coffee – but they were not going to pay for it. So, it gave me this incentive of – if I want to go do this, this is a means to an end. So, I worked for coffee and country, and it’s funny to see now how true that still is in my life. I married an Alabama boy and I make coffee…

Jordan: And you live in Nashville.

Annika: Literally. This was some sort of prophecy. I have always had a dream of running my own business. I found Google Docs from 2013 where I was having all of these business ideas. But by the time COVID came around, I was working considerably “full time”. After I got out of class at 10 am, I would go to work. When everyone was getting unemployment checks, I was too. So, I was making this money that I had never had access to before and I thought “if I’m going to start a business, I am literally being invested in right now by the government”. I was getting these weekly stimulus checks, I lived at home so I had no bills, there were no country concerts, I could make my own coffee at home at that point, so I thought “I may as well start using this money”. That really is why it came out of COVID. I worked so much to be able to receive the stimulus checks and was able to reinvest that. That was the whole point of the checks – to help the economy – and there is nothing like the backbone of the economy than small business. At that point, I decided I was going to do this little coffee cart. I knew I was going to Belmont in the fall, I had no idea if it was going to translate over, but in the meantime, I could help other small businesses by offering coffee when they do online shopping orders. I asked myself how I could help businesses that I love with the cart. My first ever event was in a boutique and people weren't allowed to come inside, so we set up in the front door and you could shop online, pick up your order at the door, and grab a coffee.

Jordan: That’s so cool.

Annika: Yeah, so from there, it just snowballed into “oh my gosh, can you do this at my shop?” and “can you do this at my graduation party?”. I wanted a coffee cart at my graduation party, and I couldn’t find anything affordable so I figured I could just do it myself. I had worked as a barista at that point, but a lot of the rest was just self-taught. All that to say, from the context you’re coming from – from a global leadership perspective – I think a lot of the work ethic and the interest in business was instilled at a very young age because I couldn’t play sports.

Jordan: That’s wild – literally thirteen years old. That’s impressive honestly. I feel like not many people can say that. Okay so going off of that, I imagine starting out in Covid – there was both a niche sense of opportunity, but also a need to overcome some barriers starting a small business in the midst of a global pandemic. What have you learned from any obstacles or challenges you faced in the midst of that?

Annika: Totally. It’s interesting that you say that, because I feel like now, obstacles and challenges have a lot more weight. And that’s true because I’m at a point now where I have employees and people rely on me and paying my bills this month now comes from this. So, getting to start in Covid, honestly, was more of a passion project. As much as people were like “oh my gosh that had to have been so hard” – it totally was and it took work – but I also wasn’t reliant on it. It got to be more of this side hobby where if it made money, it made money, but if it failed, I was still going to college in the fall. It felt like there wasn’t a ton of pressure to succeed. I honestly think that that was so crucial early on because it got to take its time. I got to be really prayerful about where this was going to go. I felt like I had the space to let go and let God. Even though that sounds so cheesy, I got to step back and say “okay I’m going to lead this, but Lord, you’re the ultimate leader and where do you want it?”. Now, as much as that is my heart for the business, it takes a lot more discipline for me to do that now than it did then, because I’m asking myself, “what’s going to make money?” and “how am I going to pay the bills this month?”. I don’t ever want to make a decision solely because it’s going to make more money. Yes, I have a business to run and we need to pay for things, but – if it’s not ethical, if it’s not kind, if it’s going to hurt someone – we’re not going to do it. Because I got to have a foundation of not being worried about the money, that has really set us up for where we are now where we say, “I have seen His faithfulness– I know He did not take me this far to leave me out to dry”. I spent this whole year where the money didn’t matter and it paid for itself and it went farther than I could have thought, so who’s to say that’s going to change now?

Jordan: Yeah, that’s so cool. I feel like being a small business owner, especially in a city as big as Nashville and at your age, you’re a different kind of leader. Because you’re what? twenty-two? twenty-three?

Annika: Mhm. Twenty-two.

Jordan: Yeah, you’re so young and you already have two storefronts. With that, I want to know – have you always felt like you were, in some way, called to leadership, or was it something that you sought out because of a certain conviction, or maybe a combination of the two?

Annika: I definitely think it's a combination of the two. Growing up, that was something that was really championed in me. My mom always said I was the hardest child to raise – not because I was naughty but because I have always had this leadership-independence type of thing. She would say that it was difficult to raise that because she had to discipline and be a good mother of course, but she also wanted to foster that leadership that she saw in me. We talk about that often – how there were times that she had to discipline me but there were other times where she asked herself how she could let me figure out my independence and foster what she saw in me and not suppress that. That is something that I am so blessed that my parents did so well. I’m also the daughter of two entrepreneurs, so I got to grow up with examples of great leadership, and Godly leadership at that. I think that’s definitely a huge part of who I am today. In those formative years, that was always championed and encouraged, and I think that is something that is unique because not a lot of people can say that. That’s not everyone’s story, so it’s not something I take for granted. From the conviction side of things, because it has been a ministry and The Lord has provided an abundance of things, there has definitely been a conviction of “I will carry you, I will sustain you, and you’re going to keep doing this” from Him. I would say that in every season, leadership looks different and my leadership looks different. I also think that a very key part of leadership is the people that you lead. You’re a great example – you literally work for me – but I trust your wisdom and want to hear your feedback and want to be on the team with you rather than just feeling like you’re under me. That’s something that’s super intentional – being convicted in the sense of “I get to lead this team, but how can I lead this team if I’m not a part of this team?”. So even if I work in the shop as often as I do, I want to know exactly what’s going on so I can be a better leader.

Jordan: Yeah. You never want it to feel like “oh, I’m above all of you guys”, because then you can’t actually be super engaged on a ground level.

Annika: Totally. I think especially with this new shop, my role is going to transition more into just business growth and not so much actually making coffee. I won’t be in the shop as much as I am now, but I because of that, I need to be very intentional that y’all know I am only a text away and I want to hear from you, I want to know your thoughts, and just because I am not right there every day, doesn't mean I am not involved and present. That’s why I think leadership looks different in every season and there’s ways to pivot in order to navigate that well.

Jordan: I love that. I would consider you someone who is kind of a natural born leader. You’re very bold, outgoing, and you have this entrepreneurial spirit. For someone who is less inclined towards that, how do you feel like they can still make a difference in their community or with a business venture?

Annika: I love that question. I actually was just on a podcast last week and I feel like that’s a lot of what we talked about. One element I would add to your question is if you have an entrepreneurial spirit but you’re not able to start your own thing right now – maybe you’re working for someone else. So my husband, Luke, has an entrepreneurial spirit that I think has yet to be explored, and one thing we talk about is having a conscious attitude of how you can serve and love people every day –that you go into work and be creative in your job. One of my biggest pieces of encouragement would be to be super intentional with where you’re at. Like I said, I have all this experience in all these random places – one of the things my mom and I were talking about yesterday is, most recently, my experiences as a corporate project manager and how it’s made me such a better leader as an owner of a coffee shop. Those two things – sure there’s correlations and whatever – but I was working in graphic design in corporate America and now I’m running a coffee shop. There are so many connections between every job if you’re being intentional with an attitude to show up to learn. When I was working in the corporate world, my whole mindset was “I know that I want to start my own thing one day – I know that this is not forever – but what can I learn from it?”. So, I would encourage anyone who either is entrepreneurial and it’s not their time or someone who wants to kind of learn to be entrepreneurial (because I think that’s definitely something that’s possible) to just soak it up like a sponge. Literally wherever the Lord has you – whatever it is that you get to do – look for things outside of the box that you can learn, and just have a very intentional attitude about how you’re going to show up through that.

Jordan: Yeah, that’s so good. I think – and you kind of already made this point – but I think people don’t give the relational aspect of leadership enough credit. Often when you think “leadership”, it’s very much this big dog “I’m over all these people” mindset, but something I think you’re really good at is meeting people where they are. It is good to have goals and dreams and aspirations, but to be able to say “hey, I’m just figuring this out and you’re figuring this out” and to have a humility about you is so important.

Annika: I think that’s something I was so real with y’all about on day one. I’ve done catering for three years, but brick and mortar is a whole new beast, you know? I get to be a better leader because I invited you to help. I really value that. And the other thing about being a small business specifically is I never want you to feel like you’re just a number on my payroll. I want to know you and, especially in our business where our whole mission statement is about knowing people and seeing people and them coming in and feeling seen, what would it be for me to not know and see my employees? This is the first seven months that I’ve had employees like this, and so it’s a lot of learning but I think I get to be a better leader by having the humility to say “hey, can we be in it together?”.

Jordan: Yeah.

Annika: And that hopefully empowers you as an employee to feel like you actually are making a difference, because you are. There’s more of an investment – everyone on our team right now is so dedicated and I think that’s a part of who y’all are – you love big and you appreciate the mission – but I think because I’ve gotten to give you a space to actually grow with it, that definitely helps you to feel more invested.

Jordan: I absolutely agree. I love our little team.

Annika: It's the best.

Jordan: It really is. Okay so I am going to pivot a little bit. I obviously have never owned a business, but whenever I’ve been in a leadership position, imposter syndrome is a huge barrier for me. One, do you resonate with that at all, and two, how do you manage that fear of inadequacy?

Annika: Yes, Daily. That’s so good. Okay there’s a few things. Imposter syndrome is very real, and the way that we respond is super important. If I give my imposter syndrome enough energy in my thought life, that is something that the enemy will take and run with totally. This is for me personally, but I truly don’t know how anyone can run a business without knowing Jesus. Daily I have to surrender that. This feeling of imposter syndrome will come up and my two options are to either let it fester and give it energy and let the devil tell me that I am super inadequate, or my other option is to say “wow I feel this coming on – Lord I give it to you and I lay it down and I’m not going to think about it because you’ve gone before me”. So those are two things – it is a daily surrender – it is something I have to surrender without even knowing it. It’s a feeling that hides in other narratives in my brain. It disguises itself really well. Someone asks me a question I don’t know an answer to or things feel intimidating or we run out of inventory and I should have been on it – just little things like that can very quickly lead into “well you’re actually doing a terrible job and you don’t know what you’re doing and you’re not good enough”. That narrative is something that anybody can feel. Right, like how many times does this feeling of “you’re not good enough” disguise itself? That is just one of the very tangible ways that I experience it. One of my mentors said something to me a couple years ago that has changed my entire outlook on imposter syndrome. She said, “Annika I’ve been owning a business for ten years and I still feel like I don’t know what I’m doing, and I know from experience that you will never feel like you know exactly what you’re doing”. It sounds so silly and it sounds like such a bummer – you literally can do it for so long and never feel like an expert– but for me, that felt like I got to take a breath and realize I am chasing this feeling that is not even attainable. That’s what it was for me. Every day I want to feel like I know what I’m doing – I want to feel worthy of this – and my mentor said “you’re not, so give up expectations. Just because you can’t reach that unattainable feeling doesn’t mean you don’t know what you’re doing. And take it a day at a time”. I know more today than I did yesterday, and that’s what matters. Acknowledging the imposter syndrome is super important, because otherwise it does disguise itself and that can bleed into so many other things.

Jordan: That’s so true. I have realized it’s just so easy for it to get so noisy up there. Like you said, you don’t even realize it, because it disguises itself as so many other things. I literally have had to ask some of my friends and mentors: “hey, if you’re actively seeing me believe lies, please just call it out”.

Annika: Which is so good. That’s so huge that you’re even able to acknowledge that you need help. That’s so real.

Jordan: Yes! Again, it goes back to the humility thing. Humility in leadership is so underrated, but we see the best leaders of all time were some of the most humble people.

Annika: Totally. Easier said than done for sure. Something that has been interesting for me is the way that humility translates to the other side. Granted, I’ve been married for two weeks now – I’m not an expert and I never will be. But now, he is the leader as the head of the house, so how can I be humble to submit to him? I think that’s going to be something that a year from now will be super interesting to look back at what I’ve learned because I’m such a natural born leader. But what does it look like to actually be led in marriage? I think we will have such an interesting dynamic as he comes and works for me because at work, I’ll be the “leader” and then we’ll come home, and he’ll be leader of the house. Because we have such a team mindset in leadership, it doesn’t feel as scary as it could. He’s the leader, but that doesn’t mean that he’s better or superior. That’s literally biblical. The Bible does not say “because he’s the leader, you are inferior”. I think that’s something that the world likes to ridicule, especially when it comes to Christian marriage, but it’s just not true. So, that will be super interesting.

Jordan: Yeah. I think that is something people believe – that in leadership, you have to put someone down to raise another person up. But there’s a way that you can very beautifully lead that doesn’t negate the strengths of the other person and vice versa.

Annika: Totally. You should be encouraging the strengths.

Jordan: Right and shedding light on them.

Annika: Totally. And acknowledging that there are different strengths. It’s the cliche of, “we are the body of Christ together”, and we have those different strengths but that’s so real. You’re better at things than I am and that can be said about the whole team, so why would we not champion that in each other? Especially as women too. That’s even more important.

Jordan: Oh yes. That’s a whole other conversation.

Annika: [Annika laughs] Totally.

Jordan: Okay so I know that you’ve talked a lot about how your faith is a driving force in everything that you do – do you want to explain that further/ explain what the greater purpose or mission is behind Prickly Pear? I don’t know that we’ve really touched on that.

Annika: Yeah. I am a big believer that ministry happens outside the four walls of the church. I said to Luke when we were walking into church, “I love coming to church on Sundays because it feels like you’re going back to the well and being filled up with your mission for the week”. It feels like we’re little superheroes going back to home base and being reminded of how to love people. That’s the illustration in my brain. We get to walk in and have these like-minded people and be encouraged and be filled up, but what’s more important is what happens Monday through Saturday. I really believe that. I also really believe that ministry can look like so many different things. Ministry can look like being a missionary in Tokyo (one of my friends is doing that) – it can look like being a pastor and explicitly sharing the gospel, but I also believe it can be smiling at someone over their cup of coffee in the morning and really seeing them and making those relationships. If the last seven months of having a brick and mortar has taught me anything, it’s that I have gotten to have more gospel conversations in the last seven months than I have ever. It didn’t start that way but it’s because I’ve gotten to build these relationships and ask people about their lives and get to know them. So the ministry and the mission behind Prickly Pear Coffee is that everyone would feel loved and seen in a way that makes them ask, “man, why is she so different? What is it about this team?”. It’s the love of Christ and we get to be filled up by that. I call this my coffee ministry and I think that can pan out a lot of different ways and there’s a lot of grace for that. I think the Lord will use it however it needs to be used for each and every individual person, and there’s no rules. Our standard is that we are going to make you a cup of coffee, we are going to ask you questions – we’re not just going to let you be a number on our point of sale, and we’re going to know you and love you even if it’s our first time meeting you. You’re going to feel welcomed and seen. In a world that is so mobile order/technology- based, there’s very few times where we actually interact. Especially in the service industry, people don’t interact and look someone in the eyes and smile, and there’s science behind the power of that. So, that is kind of where we’re at now.

Jordan: I love that. With leadership – with anything that you do – it’s so important finding a purpose beyond yourself. For both of us, that’s our faith. You can really get caught up in the pride and busy-ness and all of that when it does just become about making money and business. So, I think that’s such a valuable piece of advice to say “hey, you’re not doing this for yourself – it’s got to be about something greater”.

Annika: Yeah and your feelings are so fleeting. If I woke up today and decided that I didn’t want to go to work, I can say “well I’m going to work because of this mission”. You have to make it about something beyond yourself because our emotions and feelings are going to change, but when it’s not about me, I don’t get to say “well this is how I feel, this is what I want, and this is what I need”.

Jordan: Exactly. That’s so good. Well thanks so much Annika. This was great and I learned so much and had so much fun.

Annika: Thanks for asking.

Jordan: Yeah, thanks for being here. Love you girl.